Grinding Damascus Steel Question

Archer Here

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Nov 2, 2008
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Guys, I finally stepped into making something out of Damascus. I ordered the Damascus steel, and was told that when you’re grinding on it, it sparks a lot. I wanted to see for myself, so I hit the edge with my angle grinder sanding disc and the pattern disappeared. I guess I assumed wrong thinking the pattern went all the way through the steel. I didn’t think it would come off. Can someone give me some pointers here. It would be appreciated.

Thanks

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I believe that is normal. I don't know a ton about damascus, but the color variations are from etching, making one steel dark and the other shiny, so if you were to etch that part (and lightly sand the very surface), it would gain it's colors again. I was told that while you make damascus, you shouldn't be able to see any pattern in the steel. (until it's etched)
 
I would not worry about that at all. the only reason you are not seeing a pattern is because you ground away the contrast etched area. grind your blade to shape , heat treat , then etch. im sure it will look great. :)
 
Yes the damascuss you have has already been etched when you get done grinding it will have to be re etched
 
Mike is essentially correct. Although the pattern iwill run throughout the steel billet you will be unable to see it until you etch and finish the blade. As far as sparks go just be happy it isn't titanium or something itchy.

Edit: Damn I type slow...
 
Ah. Thanks guys. I looked up etching in google and founds several step-by-steps instructions. Seems pretty straight forward. Wish me luck. I'm doing 3 on this order. I like the fact that if you don't like the way the etching turns out you can just re-etch again.

Chris
 
... I was told that while you make damascus, you shouldn't be able to see any pattern in the steel. (until it's etched)

Actually you can see the pattern while forging and after forging (the scale is slightly different in color) . You can also see the pattern if the bar is lightly rusted or you look really really hard. :) You just don't want to be able to see the welds (excessively) because that can indicate bad welds but you are able to see them while forging even with a good weld.
Not trying to single you out Mike, just clearing that up bud. :thumbup:

As for how much it sparks, it depends on the materials used to make it. 5160 damascus will spark some but nothing compared to 1084 damascus.

As for not seeing the pattern its normal while grinding. Just re-etch once your finished and the pattern will come right back out. For some patterns grinding improves the pattern; like firestorm, star pattern, explosion, and others.

Also when you etch do a slow etch with a weak acid, it turns out far better than a fast etch with a strong acid.

Archer if you have any other damascus questions feel free to contact me, I'm more than happy to answer them. :thumbup:
 
Actually you can see the pattern while forging and after forging (the scale is slightly different in color) . You can also see the pattern if the bar is lightly rusted or you look really really hard. :) You just don't want to be able to see the welds (excessively) because that can indicate bad welds but you are able to see them while forging even with a good weld.
Not trying to single you out Mike, just clearing that up bud. :thumbup:

That makes sense when you explain it like that. Thanks!
 
Since the post shows that this is your first experience with damascus, I'll give you and others, like Mike, the etchant advise.

Use ferric chloride, which can be found at Radio Shack as printed circuit board etchant ( PCB etchant). It can be bought on ebay,etc. in the dry powder form, and mixed yourself. Use 5 pounds of powder to one gallon of water to make the etching solution. Do this outside, and stand up wind of the bottle. Add the powder slowly, and don't breath the gas that it gives off. It will get hot from the exothermic reaction, but all will be fine once it is dissolved and cooled off. If using the bottled stuff from Radio Shack or other place, dilute it 3 parts water to one part FC solution.
To etch with FC, make an etching tank from a length of 3-4" PVC pipe. Solvent weld a PVC closed flange on the bottom ( makes a steady base), and slip a PVC cap on for a lid ( don't glue the cap on). This will hold the solution safely and is ready to use all the time.If using another type of plastic container to do the etching, when done etching, pour it off from any sludge in the bottom, and cap it tightly in the storage bottle.The solution can be re-used many times and lasts most people for years. On some etching jobs, you may want to dilute some of the etchant even more for a very slow etch. Up to 15:1 is not unusual.

Etching can be done on mounted blades, but that is a big problem. It is always best to etch the bare blades before any mounting work is done in the beginning. Do etching outside if possible, or in the workshop/garage with good ventillation. The stuff stains anything it drips on, and the little lady will not think highly of her floor, sink, and counters having big orange stains. It stains your hands,too, so wear rubber gloves.

To etch, sand the blade to at least 400 grit, going as high as you wish. Clean the blade with soap and water, scrubbing well with a Scotch Brite pad.Rinse well in hot running water. Try and not touch the blade surface ( hold the tang) after cleaning. Use a piece of iron or steel wire to hang the blade in the tank. Try to hang it in the center. You want the etching to be even. The bubbles that form ( you may not see them, but they are there) will run up the surfaces and create funny marks, so move the blade around ( agitate gently) every minute or so. You can also just hold the wire in you hand ( longer wire) and slowly move the blade all the time. After about one minute, take the blade out and rinse it off with a hose, or in the work sink. Look at the pattern, and see if there are any problem areas that are not etching right. This can be from that area not being layered or patterned right, dirt, oil, or some other resist that is preventing the FC from eating the steel. If there is a problem, rinse again, and scrub the blade with a clean Scotch Brite pad. Repeat the first etch and check again. Once all seems to be going fine, allow the blade to etch for the needed time. Take it out every two to five minutes and scrub the black stuff off, rinse, and return it to the tank. After a while, from as short as five minutes to as long as thirty. The blade will look well etched...a bit more than you want. That is where to take it out. You will be sanding the surface and the etching will be reduced. Take the blade and rinse it well. Place it in a pot of boiling water for 10 minutes. This helps set the black better. Take it out and scrub well with soap and water until it looks good. Now, scrub with TSP, or spray with a good amount of windex ( or use ammonia) and scrub again. This neutralizes the FC, and prevents rust from creeping up from the layers to haunt you later. You can always etch some more, if needed, but sanding down a too deep etch removes some of the blade surface, so try to sneak upon the perfect etch.

Re-sand the clean blade gently, to make the high areas brighter, and leaving the lower areas dark.Use a hard backing block for your paper to get the maxumum effect. You may have to give the blade a quick 30 second etch a couple of times to darken some areas. Remember to rinse well and neutralize the FC with a heavy spritz of windex.
Once the sanding is done.......Don't Buff the Blade on the Buffer. Buffing can smear the pattern and make it look bad. It is best to finish by hand to high grit and get the shine you want that way. Once done, lightly oil the blade to prevent rust. Damascus blades should be stored out of the sheath ( all blades should be stored out of the sheath) and oiled or protected with Renaissance wax or such.

There are a lot of things you can achieve with etching. Even mono-steels can be dramatically changed by etching them. Wrought iron shows its pattern after etching. Short etches simply show the pattern, but don't change the surface. Long etches make the blade have a topographic surface. Play with some scrap pieces to see the effects of different dilutions and longer and shorter etches. Smetimes a final buff by hand with Flitz looks great, sometimes not...experiment.

Final note, don't use the same FC to etch mokume' gane or any copper/brass fittings or it may put a funny copper color on your knife blade.

Stacy
 
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Great info here!! i'm about ready to use my first damascus. i've got some nichols SS damascus.

Quick question: will anywhere in the U.S ship ferric chloride outside the U.S?? i cant find any FC locally and it seems it cant be shipped internationally??
 
Bali I used muratic acid to etch my ss damascus. It can be found in places that sell pool cleaners, it's also used to etch and clean concrete before applying paint or other coatings.
 
Great info here!! i'm about ready to use my first damascus. i've got some nichols SS damascus.

Quick question: will anywhere in the U.S ship ferric chloride outside the U.S?? i cant find any FC locally and it seems it cant be shipped internationally??

You profile doesn't list anything, but I'm assuming you are in Australia...

http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=H0800

http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4aba5cfe079aacda273fc0a87e0106f0/Product/View/N5652
 
Ok, i found some!! how much will i need to order for etching folder blades. max length will be 6".

thanks guys!
 
Ok, i found some!! how much will i need to order for etching folder blades. max length will be 6".

thanks guys!

Being you will not likely be using it straight, but diluting it with 3 or 4 parts water (purified, not tap), and you are not trying to etch a 20" blade, it will not require much... I'd go with the smallest size they have.

If you keep it clean and well sealed, it lasts for a long time.

PS. I've heard bad things about FC reacting with aluminum (explosive, according to one source), store in a plastic or glass container.
 
The etching process is pretty much the way Stacy described it. I use distilled water when mixing with the FC, as the minerals that could affect the enchant have been removed. :jerkit:

I typically start etching after 220 grit grinding. After the etch, I move up to 400 grit sand until all the previous etching has been removed, this way all the 220 scratches are gone. After the 400 I move up to 600, removing all the 400 scratches, after the 600 I go to 1000 grit, etch and sand till I get the depth of pattern that I want.

Good luck :cool:
 
So i should'nt just finish the blade up to say 400-600 then etch??
i was told by the maker to do 50/50 of ferric and white vinegar..,sound sufficient?? i'm a total newb to damascus.
 
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