Grinding, respirators, and eye protection questions

REK Knives

REK Knives

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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Apr 3, 2011
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Hey guys! Wondering what you full time knife makers use for protection? Currently I am using this 3m half mask with these cartridge filters, and this pair of face goggles when I need them. I also use rubber gloves.

My problem is this... I'm at the grinder, looking down for hours on end each day - this is my full time work. This causes a ton of tension in my neck, shoulders, and back which I'm sure will lead to health issues down the road, and is unpleasant currently. This causes me to not look forward to work as much because it hurts.

The second issue is that I don't really wear my eye protection because they fog up after a while. I use them when I am using 36grit belts or belts at high speed, but most of the time I am running at about 800-1000 sfpm (20% power) and i have 2 built in shields on it so even if a belt does pop I am in no risk of harm. My reason for wanting to use eye protection doesn't come as much from projectiles as it comes from the dust and coolant mist in the air and not wanting to get that stuff in my eyes over the years - so regular safety glasses won't work, but neither will a gas mask due to the weight.

Which leads me to the questions...

1. Anyone have any suggestions for "grinders neck"? build a rest for my forehead? I do periodically take a break and look up/stretch but it doesn't seem to help much.
2. What should I do for eye/skin/breathing protection on my face during grinding - something that is LIGHT weight, more weight will contribute to problem #1. Any light weight air supply systems out there

I may just be out of luck and have to get my massage therapist (wife) to work her magic more lol.
 
A PAPR would be your best option if you don't mind the price. It doesn't fog and provides great respiratory and eye protection.

Otherwise, a full face 3M respirator is a good option.

As for the tension in your neck and back, perhaps stretching periodically or working out?
 
I'm looking into a supplied air unit like this I am just worried about the weight of the face mask. I will have to see what I can do about a rest.
 
I use a 3M Breathe Easy. I've used the helmet with face shield as well as the full face mask, and both work. They do tend to make you a bit top heavy, and the helmet and face mask can fog in cold weather. I used the face mask the first time a few weeks back, and I liked it a good bit. Unfortunately, pretty much any PAPR or even cartridge mask will add weight to the head, and if your posture is such that you are looking down at your work, you will eventually have issues. One suggestion since you're doing this full time would be to try and alter your posture and mechanics for better long-term benefits. Maybe sit on a tall stool and work more at chest level than at abdomen level while standing. If you're like me and end up wanting to stick to your learned posture, you'll need to regiment your day so that you have frequent breaks from staring down at the grinder. Maybe have several things going at the same time. Rough grind a blade, sit and hand sand one side of a blade, go back and finish grind the first blade, come back and hand sand the second side, etc. Any type of rhythm to keep you from spending 2 hours straight at the grinder.

--nathan
 
I would get some eye protection. I've heard of blacksmiths getting metal shrapnel in their eyes with cheap glasses on. Losing an eye or having to get my retina drilled is just not worth it to me even if they are uncomfortable or fog up.

Something you can try for the fog is get some dove soap and rub a thin layer of that on your glasses and it acts like an anti fog barrier. I don't really have the fogging issues so I haven't tried it but I've heard it recommended by constructions workers wearing goggles all day.

If you make a forehead rest you have to post a photo of it. The thought of it just made me chuckle, though I have back problems so I know what you are talking about. Something I've seen that I would like to try to replicate somehow is a guy, on BFC I think, mounted his grinder to an old barbers chair so he could raise and lower it. I think that would really help with my back and neck issues while at the grinder. A stool does help when I can use one.

-Clint
 
silver_pilate said:
I use a 3M Breathe Easy. I've used the helmet with face shield as well as the full face mask, and both work. They do tend to make you a bit top heavy, and the helmet and face mask can fog in cold weather. I used the face mask the first time a few weeks back, and I liked it a good bit. Unfortunately, pretty much any PAPR or even cartridge mask will add weight to the head, and if your posture is such that you are looking down at your work, you will eventually have issues. One suggestion since you're doing this full time would be to try and alter your posture and mechanics for better long-term benefits. Maybe sit on a tall stool and work more at chest level than at abdomen level while standing. If you're like me and end up wanting to stick to your learned posture, you'll need to regiment your day so that you have frequent breaks from staring down at the grinder. Maybe have several things going at the same time. Rough grind a blade, sit and hand sand one side of a blade, go back and finish grind the first blade, come back and hand sand the second side, etc. Any type of rhythm to keep you from spending 2 hours straight at the grinder.

--nathan
Click to expand...

Great advise. I have tried to modify my posture somewhat... I have noticed that I hunch down to try to get as close as I can to the work instead of keeping my back straight and just tilting my head and looking down w/ my eyes. I have been trying to retrain myself though! As far as raising the grinder or sitting down, I would do that but I have to be able to see down from above to see where and how the blade is meeting the belt... I'm actually not making knives, but I do regrind a lot of blades, sometimes $400-500 in value and don't want to mess one up playing around w/ different techniques :(

Augus7us said:
I would get some eye protection. I've heard of blacksmiths getting metal shrapnel in their eyes with cheap glasses on. Losing an eye or having to get my retina drilled is just not worth it to me even if they are uncomfortable or fog up.

Something you can try for the fog is get some dove soap and rub a thin layer of that on your glasses and it acts like an anti fog barrier. I don't really have the fogging issues so I haven't tried it but I've heard it recommended by constructions workers wearing goggles all day.

If you make a forehead rest you have to post a photo of it. The thought of it just made me chuckle, though I have back problems so I know what you are talking about. Something I've seen that I would like to try to replicate somehow is a guy, on BFC I think, mounted his grinder to an old barbers chair so he could raise and lower it. I think that would really help with my back and neck issues while at the grinder. A stool does help when I can use one.

-Clint
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pointers Clint. Yes I am wanting to figure something out about eye pro for sure! Yeah I will have to post up pics if I find something that works =)
 
I have tried several different height stands under my grinder and the taller it is the less the pain is for me. I was having problems with my safety glasses fogging too, until I switched to 3m glasses
 
silver_pilate said:
I use a 3M Breathe Easy. I've used the helmet with face shield as well as the full face mask, and both work. They do tend to make you a bit top heavy, and the helmet and face mask can fog in cold weather. I used the face mask the first time a few weeks back, and I liked it a good bit. Unfortunately, pretty much any PAPR or even cartridge mask will add weight to the head, and if your posture is such that you are looking down at your work, you will eventually have issues. One suggestion since you're doing this full time would be to try and alter your posture and mechanics for better long-term benefits. Maybe sit on a tall stool and work more at chest level than at abdomen level while standing. If you're like me and end up wanting to stick to your learned posture, you'll need to regiment your day so that you have frequent breaks from staring down at the grinder. Maybe have several things going at the same time. Rough grind a blade, sit and hand sand one side of a blade, go back and finish grind the first blade, come back and hand sand the second side, etc. Any type of rhythm to keep you from spending 2 hours straight at the grinder.

--nathan
Click to expand...

Spalted said:
I have tried several different height stands under my grinder and the taller it is the less the pain is for me. I was having problems with my safety glasses fogging too, until I switched to 3m glasses
Click to expand...

Yes I think I do need to get closer to my work probably... you using 3m glasses or goggles?
 
I am by no means a full time knife maker, but between the knife making I've started to do, and the wood turning I've done for the past 15 years I've had some need for a good respirator and face, and hearing protection.
I use a Trend Airshield pro which provides all three and works well with my beard
 
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"3M Nuvo Anti Fog Safety Glasses",mine has the bifocals.
I would like to try one of the airshields one day
 
I have a full beard so I have trouble with full/half face respirators. I ended up getting a Resp-O-Rator and it has worked great so far. It's very reasonably priced. If I ever go full tilt, high volume production I might go to a high end system. Maybe not.
 
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I use these religiously. I am looking into a North 5400 mask, and I use Uvex safety glasses at the moment, though they can fogg up fairly easy.
 
im no full time knife maker but do work 12 hour shifts in a mine. i wear a half face 3m respirator and different cartridges depending on location. the particulate pan cake ones should be fine. for glasses i wear 3M prescrtion safety glasses. cover alls , kevlar gloves and a kidney belt if you're on your feet or lifting for long periodes of time. put a rubber matt down on the floor of your work stations and above all wear good quality steel toe boots and put gel insoles in them. a hard hat and lamp too but i doubt you need one.

cheers

grumpy_grinder
 
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silver_pilate said:
...and if your posture is such that you are looking down at your work, you will eventually have issues. One suggestion since you're doing this full time would be to try and alter your posture and mechanics for better long-term benefits... regiment your day so that you have frequent breaks from staring down at the grinder... Any type of rhythm to keep you from spending 2 hours straight at the grinder.

--nathan
Click to expand...

Not necessarily breathing related, but from my professional opinion (profession being physical therapist for the past 20+ years), nathan gives very sound advice, the same principles I teach my patients regularly. ESPECIALLY the posture/mechanics portion. If you were nearby, I'd offer to stop by and give posture advice. I'm sure there are folks out there in everyone's area to consult on this. long term wear and tear from poor postures/mechanics can be the cause of wrist/hand, arm, elbow, shoulder, neck, back, and possible hip problems, and a relatively cheap and easy fix.

But back to the original thread, great info, thanks for the unsolicited advice on doing more to protect my lungs...

~billyO
 
I want to re-emphasize the need for eye protection. I'm a part timer when it comes to knives but my full time job is as an ophthalmologist. I've seen unfortunate cases of guys not wearing eye protection while using high speed grinding equipment and having metal shot INTO the eye. Even if it can be retrieved it can mean permanent vision loss and at the very least means a huge surgery and long recovery. Wearing safety glasses will prevent this. Now glasses won't stop the dust and small particles from getting on the eye. The small bits can bounce off your forehead etc and land ON your eye and have to be removed but that is a minor inconvenience compared to metal IN the eye.
 
rcetroy said:
I want to re-emphasize the need for eye protection. I'm a part timer when it comes to knives but my full time job is as an ophthalmologist. I've seen unfortunate cases of guys not wearing eye protection while using high speed grinding equipment and having metal shot INTO the eye. Even if it can be retrieved it can mean permanent vision loss and at the very least means a huge surgery and long recovery. Wearing safety glasses will prevent this. Now glasses won't stop the dust and small particles from getting on the eye. The small bits can bounce off your forehead etc and land ON your eye and have to be removed but that is a minor inconvenience compared to metal IN the eye.
Click to expand...

I've had sparks sneak up past glasses or goggles

Any experience with any different eye protection = especially for those with prescription glasses and bifocals

I've seen examples of goggle what look like ski goggles, mostly aimed at military use in the desert
 
I have worked around deadly chemicals used for rocket propulsion and we have full face positive pressure breathing air supplied MSA Ultra Elite respirators that convert to canister filters. They have a molded in support for a frame that accepts prescription lenses. I purchased a unit for my personal use in grinding with just the canisters because I needed the prescription lens option. Its a bit heavy compared to a half face mask but they seal very well around the face.
 
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