Gso-4.7

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mlmcasual said:
I keep seeing people posting "we all knew it would take a long time".. Please speak for yourself. When I made my gso12 pre-order back early May2015, the website for preorders statement was
" It is important that you know these knives have not been produced yet and orders will not begin to ship out for at least a couple of months. While we cannot guarantee a delivery date, we can guarantee that you will get your knife"

When I placed the order.. I knew it could take "a couple" of months.. but two years or more which is the CURRENT outlook based on past delivery performance is way more then I "knew" I would be vesting in. Don't put the onus on me like I knew what I was getting into for the possible outlook of a 2+ years lead time.

Please stop making apologizes on others behalf for trying to get a handle of what to expect of a wildly moving target of exponentially growing lead times. Granted, whining and repeating open ended criticism is non-constructive but trying to get an idea of when a 100% fully paid item will be delivered that has gone beyond a year is not out of line by any stretch.. and to portray the seller as the victim is absurd beyond any rational reasonable level. Recognizing, and praising SK as the very best knives in the world does NOT have to mutually EXCLUDE a buyer from being vigilant getting a handle on lead times that have gone far beyond expectations for an up front purchase.
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So much this! It clearly said "a couple of months" from the start. And to add to this further, after I ordered in April I found out I was moving for work. So I called in May to let them know that if it would be longer than July 2015, I'd need an address change. I was told then that it probably wouldn't be necessary. So for everyone to say "we knew this was the case" is horse apples. As y'all can see, I don't post here, I've stopped following this saga. I've resigned myself to "it gets here when it gets here", but I'll never pre-order again, that's for sure. I'm not like OBX sitting on 50 knives. I've got a Mora companion and an Izula. I did my research and wanted to get one nice fixed blade so I pre-ordered under the assumption I'd see it in 6 months at the latest, that's what I was lead to believe and I thought that was generous since I had paid in full. I was close to buying a Benchmade Bushcrafter or a TOPS BOB but felt that the S! was a better blade and worth a short wait. If you had told me then that I could have one of those 2 immediately or wait what? 18 months maybe by the time this is said and done (June sounds shot from the update, not hating just the facts) I know what I would have done. I know the 4.7 is the better knife and I'm still excited for when it gets here but I'm about to go another camping/backpacking season without a good fixed blade.
 
SURVIVE! Ellie said:
the downsizing isn't why there is a longer wait. It is because demand has increased. We are probably putting out around 3x the number of knives we sent in 2013.
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This is only meant to be constructive:
Demand is different from growth. As an experienced Process Engineer, I can say this "forced increase in production" probably wasn't the best choice. Alienating existing customers to gain new ones, usually leads to poor results, as seen recently. Limiting the number of pre-sales would have likely been a better way to handle this. You can see/follow similar trends on Kickstarter, Massdrop, etc. Case studies are always a good thing!
 
emechtech said:
This is only meant to be constructive:
Demand is different from growth. As an experienced Process Engineer, I can say this "forced increase in production" probably wasn't the best choice. Alienating existing customers to gain new ones, usually leads to poor results, as seen recently. Limiting the number of pre-sales would have likely been a better way to handle this. You can see/follow similar trends on Kickstarter, Massdrop, etc. Case studies are always a good thing!
Click to expand...


now this is the type of constructive criticism and suggestions i like to see.
 
emechtech said:
This is only meant to be constructive:
Demand is different from growth. As an experienced Process Engineer, I can say this "forced increase in production" probably wasn't the best choice. Alienating existing customers to gain new ones, usually leads to poor results, as seen recently. Limiting the number of pre-sales would have likely been a better way to handle this. You can see/follow similar trends on Kickstarter, Massdrop, etc. Case studies are always a good thing!
Click to expand...
I don't disagree necessarily, but I think this is a case of hindsight being 20/20. It seems clear from their early estimates, they had no idea just how long this would take. If they had known, they may have made different choices.

That said, I'm glad they upped their production. There are a lot of us who wouldn't have received knives otherwise.
 
Doctor Jenks said:
The offense you took at my post seems to undercut your point. My comments were not directed at people asking for updates, but to the "open ended complaining", as you put it. If you weren't complaining, why would you take offense?

I didn't say you should have known how long it would take, I said that I don't care if you didn't know. But I digress. Have you asked for a refund?
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No offense taken, was just clarifying.. No I haven't asked for a refund, but that's exactly why I am trying to get a handle on some already past year ordered items whether I I need to pursue that route. If lead times are looking to be 2+ years then yea.. probably will pursue refunds on a few of my orders. at the 2+ year mark I am uncomfortable with a an upfront purchase and would rather just buy seconds or off ebay. At 2+ years it becomes not just about the wait with money tied up, it also becomes a bigger gamble. a lot can happen to a small business in 2, 3 years.. health, finances, burnout, etc.
 
Regarding Ellie's post:

- As a small business owner myself (I couldn't find a smaller font :D) it is best to not bring up the personal life sacrifice factor that most of us endure with running our businesses. Hopefully your personal sacrifices will be rewarded in more ways than just procuring long term financial security for your family.

- As someone who used to be involved with restoration of classic automobiles, I can attest to the fact that despite the best of intentions and making solid plans, when relying on parts suppliers, upholstery shops, paint and bodywork shops, clients changing order options, human resources matters, and a handful of other factors;
things do NOT always transpire as they were originally had been projected. There came points in time that good business had to be turned away because of the unpredictable nature outsourcing and that unfortunately turns into bad business!

- Overall, it is a good thing that people share news about their newly acquired Survive! knives although it can be a double edged sword. Let us not discourage that practice and I am not insinuating that Ellie was even implying that. She was merely stating a fact and human nature being mostly self-serving, you know where that leads to!

- Again, enjoy the mini break time in June. Your tools are underpriced and I now know this from personal experiences and tangible comparisons. Personally speaking, I will be placing more pre-production orders (as long as Ellie does not ban me) if I gather that Survive! manages to streamline production process to within
a 12 months period from when preorders are closed (note, I didn't say from when I preorder!). But 18+ months to over 2 years does not bode too well with my fickle and impatient buyer's characteristics.

Just my 2 Cs!
 
Come on guys, can we whine or not whine without attacking eachother? Most definitely DO NOT attack Ellie. I'm not even going to state my differing opinions with some of the recent statements because this is turning into Captain America: Civil War.
 
More movie metaphors?! Silveroo, please promise me that you will get out this weekend and chop something? :D
 
Casinostocks said:
More movie metaphors?! Silveroo, please promise me that you will get out this weekend and chop something? :D
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Ha! Actually last weekend was really good for the wild side of my spirit. Maybe a little more cutting and fire prep tomorrow.

Just seeing regular "good guys" turning on eachother here, I couldn't resist.
 
mlmcasual said:
No offense taken, was just clarifying.. No I haven't asked for a refund, but that's exactly why I am trying to get a handle on some already past year ordered items whether I I need to pursue that route. If lead times are looking to be 2+ years then yea.. probably will pursue refunds on a few of my orders. at the 2+ year mark I am uncomfortable with a an upfront purchase and would rather just buy seconds or off ebay. At 2+ years it becomes not just about the wait with money tied up, it also becomes a bigger gamble. a lot can happen to a small business in 2, 3 years.. health, finances, burnout, etc.
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This is good, I really like this attitude. Hopefully you can find an answer to how long things will take. Although history should warn us that whatever estimates we get, may eventually be delayed. It's going to take as long as it takes at this point.

Good luck! I hope you stick with it, and get your knives soon!

Edit: I actually think things are going to pick up soon. Presumably, there are fewer orders for the knives lower on this list. This should help.
 
palomar4130 said:
So much this! It clearly said "a couple of months" from the start. And to add to this further, after I ordered in April I found out I was moving for work. So I called in May to let them know that if it would be longer than July 2015, I'd need an address change. I was told then that it probably wouldn't be necessary. So for everyone to say "we knew this was the case" is horse apples. As y'all can see, I don't post here, I've stopped following this saga. I've resigned myself to "it gets here when it gets here", but I'll never pre-order again, that's for sure. I'm not like OBX sitting on 50 knives. I've got a Mora companion and an Izula. I did my research and wanted to get one nice fixed blade so I pre-ordered under the assumption I'd see it in 6 months at the latest, that's what I was lead to believe and I thought that was generous since I had paid in full. I was close to buying a Benchmade Bushcrafter or a TOPS BOB but felt that the S! was a better blade and worth a short wait. If you had told me then that I could have one of those 2 immediately or wait what? 18 months maybe by the time this is said and done (June sounds shot from the update, not hating just the facts) I know what I would have done. I know the 4.7 is the better knife and I'm still excited for when it gets here but I'm about to go another camping/backpacking season without a good fixed blade.
Click to expand...

Palomar email me. Maybe I can help you out.
 
Palomar if it helps you, I very recently dumped my TOPS BoB on here for a $40+ loss as soon as I received my GSO 5.1 Factory 2nd. The BoB was unused and just fondled. The only thing I did not include was the whistle because I blew into it so a $2 whistle ended up costing me about $40! :eek:

Not to poo-poo the TOPS & ESEEs as they do serve a very good purchase but their products are not even on the same plane as these GSOs. Not being a fanboy, but I can specifically tell you my opinion because I have had an array of ESEEs and some TOPS. If you put all your hard earned
money and scratched up enough to score a GSO, yes I do have a lot of sympathy toward your plight. If you can still afford it, ask some of the more knowledgeable people on here what and where to get a camping knife to satiate your current camping knife appetite till you receive your GSO :thumbup:

P.S. TT being a basic member, he may not be able to email you. I don't know the rules though. Maybe yes on email but no on PM?
 
I agree most reasonnable people expected the pre orders to be done within a year (give or take)
I think Survive made a mistake buy opening pre orders for so many models
They should probably have started with one or two
 
Any statement I make will be a stereotype, and doesn't apply to all... I'm sure YOU (whoever you are) are the exception, but it seems to me it is *generally speaking* the new guys who come here having only a Mora and an Esee who cry foul... repeatedly... because they don't feel validation in this community, or haven't learned that redundancy only serves to weaken their argument... it doesn't make it stronger. They come with lectures about how they believe Survive owes them... because they expected shorter wait times, paid their hard earned money, blah, blah, blah. Bless their poor little hearts.

My family photo:
b688660a81b1c0f592e900a0e7c19207.jpg


Then there are those of us who've actually invested time beside this small, high quality company, who've also put some skin in the game, and are willing to endure the hardships of growth beside its owners, because we have found more in Survive than merely superior products.

For instance, in addition to my proud family photo above, on preorder and starter, I have a 2.7, two 3.5, two 4.1, two 4.7, and a 6 on order. I also have two out in the mail, and one more coming in this week in trade. Do I want all of my knives now? Nope... Not at the expense of the quality that makes these knives so great.

I know I don't only speak for myself when I say, there are a handful of rotten eggs in our happy little Survive basket... they're neither wanted nor needed, but it's apparently their life's mission to infect this happy little eutopia of ours, probably from too much time on the Whine & Cheese subforum. Before some of them arrived, there was a high level of camaraderie and enjoyment in my feed. Sadly, a couple of guys have hijacked nearly every Survive thread, because they're not getting enough attention. And it doesn't matter what Guy and Ellie say... they just cannot be satisfied unless their cries for justice are met with remedies beyond the realm of reasonable expectations or impossible deliveries. It doesn't matter how many veterans try to calm them, deflect them, or argue them to peace... They're here with an agenda.

To them, I say, just politely ask Survive for a refund, privately, without any pomp and circumstance. Then, kindly, just go away. Go buy an Ambush knife if you want a Survive knockoff made of similar materials by a decent manufacturer. Warning: Stay away from Gen1... they had all sorts of quality issues with their heat treat... but you can get a Gen2 any time you want one, for a deep discount in trade value or sale, on the exchange... And there is probably a reason for that, but I won't cast an opinion.

But shut up. And go away. Squealing further doesn't improve your standing. In fact, if it were me, I'd move you to the back if the line and make you wait.

Attacking Ellie and Guy will not ever get you any love here, especially when it becomes personal... and I assure you, some here have made it personal. Back off.

Persist, and all you do is prove one thing: We are right about you.

Now... Go get a life. Go play with your Mora and your Esee. Both wonderful knives at their price point. I have many of each.

Cue ignorant backlash in 3, 2... 1.... Go.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
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bless you, forte. we all thank you for your eloquent statement expressing how we all feel but were unable to put into words.
 
You Tell em Forte!

Btw, I noticed your collection is missing the new gso 4.7... So you can look at mine. I have a nice brand spankin new flawless 4.7 with microtexturing second I picked up a few weeks ago without even having to wait, no muss no fuss... awesome knife!
pn79rRFkj
 
mlmcasual said:
You Tell em Forte!
Btw, I noticed your missing the new 4.7 from your collection pics.. So you can look at mine. I have a nice brand spankin new flawless 4.7 second I picked up without even having to wait.. awesome knife!
pn79rRFkj
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I've always preferred the 4.1 to all others... maybe because she was my first. There's something so beautiful about the bond with one's first. :)

I am really looking forward to the new line. I use to say I hated choils, but the new 5.1 changed my mind. But so far, I still favor my 4.1.

This 4.7 though... she has piqued my interest. She may be the one. Tell me... how does she feel?



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