Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

Not to be a downer, but...

Seems like more speculation than factual information.
I would suggest conferring (privately, before posting) with the authority on everything Lambfoot- Jack Black Jack Black , who also happens to be a professional writer and historian.
But, what do I know.?:rolleyes:
 
Not to be a downer, but...

Seems like more speculation than factual information.
I would suggest conferring (privately, before posting) with the authority on everything Lambfoot- Jack Black Jack Black , who also happens to be a professional writer and historian.
But, what do I know.?:rolleyes:

Hmmm... well, I would love his input, but he seems to either have me blocked or not reply to my PMs. I’m sure I did something jerky in my younger days, but I don’t remember what. I have tried in the past to ask for his input, but didn’t on this because I thought I wouldn’t get a response.

All of the theories in my post are ones I either read here or I wondered about then were seconded by posts here. I don’t think I made any conjectures that haven’t been made here or on AAPK and met by agreement or at least positive curiosity.

Edit: I thought I'd add some of the reading I've based the article on as references. Hopefully it can help illuminate places where I might have conjectured further than is prudent, or where I've taken as agreed upon theory what should be taken as conjecture from the following posts:

Name origins, popularity in UK vs US because of herding/farming vs hunting

Not showing up in US due to immigration of cutlers before its creation, also due to tariffs, also due to Americans preferring bellied blades

No US Lambfoots (till @waynorth great rendition by GEC), another suggestion that the reason it didn't come to America could be that the US cutlery industry had taken root before its creation, and / or because of tariffs and Sheffield companies preferring other markets

Name origin discussion

Name possibly as a marketing tactic, like Ettrick and Wharncliffe

Immigration of cutlers, tariffs, trademark protections cause of "Real Lambfoot"



Are there parts that you think are wrong, or too much conjecture? I’d love to know, that’s why I posted here. I respect and appreciate the enthusiasm for and knowledge of the pattern in this thread.

Like I said earlier, I know I’ve been haughty or arrogant in the past and don’t expect it to be forgotten. But I’d really like if it could forgive and seen that for a long time I’ve been trying to learn as much as I can and help spread that knowledge outside of the forums. I joined BladeForums when I was 18, and I’m sure we were all a little more hot headed at that age.

But hey, I don’t mean to whine or play the woe is me card. I appreciate any feedback on the content of the post that anyone offers.
 
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Jack, I can identify with your photo of the steel workers. Runs deep within my family:). My great uncle was "puddler" whilst working at Youngstown Steel. I later, while in college, worked summers at Bethlehem Steel (Steelton, PA) as a laborer and electricians helper. After college I landed a job as a "Student Engineer" at Youngstown Steel, Youngstown Ohio and finally need up being a General Foreman for Cold Rolled & Tubular. Worked there for 4 years until I landed an engineering position for a specialty chemical company. Once steel making gets in your blood it never leaves!;)

Good morning Guardians and all. The weekend is rolling along but it has been soggy out:thumbsdown:. Indoor photography is the order of things. Back to carrying my HHB.:D
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The company I worked for made a lot of commutators for the rolling mills in the plants.... We made a 124" brush diameter Allis Chalmers commutator for Empire Detroit Steel in Masillon, OH....... We made a lot of Westinghouse, GE, Reliance, etc commutators...... Some were 5000-6000 HP commutators for the first hit blooming stand...... We were about 2 hours northeast of Youngstown....
 
Hmmm... well, I would love his input, but he seems to either have me blocked or not reply to my PMs. I’m sure I did something jerky in my younger days, but I don’t remember what. I have tried in the past to ask for his input, but didn’t on this because I thought I wouldn’t get a response.

You're on my 'ignore' list B B.F.U . I don't recall why, but it's a very small list, and I do not add posters to it without good cause. That said, I appreciate what you say. It's rather a curse for younger folks today that their internet history will come back to haunt them, and I do feel people deserve a second chance. However, I don't think you can post a half-written article here, containing a lot of mistakes, and a certain amount of misinformation, and expect posters here to correct it for you. I've been a professional writer for most of my life, and I hope you won't mind if I give you some advice, which is intended to be helpful, not patronising. You have one name, and one reputation, so don't risk tarnishing either by publishing information you have not thoroughly researched. Don't confuse guesses with facts, and if you do use conjecture, make sure you make it clear that's what it is, or someone will come along and punch big holes in your 'facts', and you'll end up looking foolish. When you publish an article about a subject, you're presenting yourself as an authority, so don't write it until you ARE an authority. I've been quietly writing an article about the Lambsfoot knife for a couple of years, and I still realise more research is needed. Instead of presenting the readers of your blog with an article which will add to the huge amount of misinformation on the internet, why not keep it short, and tell them what you actually KNOW. You could tell them about your solitary Lambsfoot, and why you like it so much (and hopefully why you regret spoiling it with an easy-open notch). You have very limited experience of the pattern, and your opinions about it may change overtime, as you acquire new ones for example, so why not moderate your ambition? This is not meant to be criticism, enthusiasm is commendable, don't be dispirited, but try not to make mistakes either. An example of this is your discussion about sailor's knives, the Lambsfoot is not a sailor's knife, and so far as I know, has no connection to the water. There's some very good discussion about sailor's knives in one of Charlie @waynorth's threads if you're interested in the subject, but it's worth noting that one of the Sheffield 'Town Patterns' is a Boat Knife, similar in design to a Dadley or Kephart-style knife. It has been produced for over a hundred years, sells very well, and is still in production today. It has a pointed end :thumbsup:
 
Good morning Guardians, I hope everyone had a nice weekend, particularly those of you who have to venture out to work today. Stay safe out there folks. Those of you, like myself, working from home, I hope your week goes OK too. You retired folks, you've earned it, put your feet up, and take care ;) The situation here remains fluid and confused. With the infection rate continuing to climb, schools in London remain closed for the time-being, but pupils in other parts of the country return today, or they're supposed to at least. Hope your week gets off to a good start Guardians :thumbsup:

sSN4xvy.jpg
 
Good morning Guardians, I hope everyone had a nice weekend, particularly those of you who have to venture out to work today. Stay safe out there folks. Those of you, like myself, working from home, I hope your week goes OK too. You retired folks, you've earned it, put your feet up, and take care ;) The situation here remains fluid and confused. With the infection rate continuing to climb, schools in London remain closed for the time-being, but pupils in other parts of the country return today, or they're supposed to at least. Hope your week gets off to a good start Guardians :thumbsup:

sSN4xvy.jpg

Just having some cheese on toast for lunch, with Henderson's of course ;) :thumbsup:

PJifYv4.jpg
Very nice photos of your HHB Jack:thumbsup:. I always enjoy seeing what food you are high lighting because of the various things that you eat across the pond compared to what we typically enjoy.

Good morning Guardians and all. I had a rough weekend and start of the new week.:eek: One of my best friends passed away from COVID:(. In peak health and only 69 years of age. Struck down in a matter of days. He died alone because there is no visitation for COVID patients and based on conversations with his wife it was a terrible death. This is a terrible disease. I've had several relatives and one child contract COVID and they all recovered but some spent weeks in a hospital whilst others had minor symptoms. Please take care and stay vigilant.
Similar photo as yesterday but at a slightly different angle.
IMG_2795.JPG
 
Very nice photos of your HHB Jack:thumbsup:. I always enjoy seeing what food you are high lighting because of the various things that you eat across the pond compared to what we typically enjoy.

Good morning Guardians and all. I had a rough weekend and start of the new week.:eek: One of my best friends passed away from COVID:(. In peak health and only 69 years of age. Struck down in a matter of days. He died alone because there is no visitation for COVID patients and based on conversations with his wife it was a terrible death. This is a terrible disease. I've had several relatives and one child contract COVID and they all recovered but some spent weeks in a hospital whilst others had minor symptoms. Please take care and stay vigilant.
Similar photo as yesterday but at a slightly different angle.
View attachment 1485156

Bill, sincere condolences my friend, I'm very, very sorry to hear about your pal, what a rotten way to go :( Thank you for your kind words :thumbsup:
 
That's a fascinating Bill, a lot of the members of my family worked in steel-works (just about everyone who wasn't in cutlery or engineering). Some of them are still in steel, and even about 25 years ago, a couple of my uncles were trying to get me to join them at Daniel Doncaster's, where one of them was foreman. Those are world-famous steel works Bill, you don't forget those places. Though I dealt regularly with some of the British Steel gaffers, while developing a HT process for one of their steels in the early 90's, I never worked in any of the Sheffield works. The smell of steel was all around when I was a kid though, and every building was black with soot. It undoubtedly does get into your blood! The doors of the tall rolling mills would be left open for better ventilation, with scores and scores of steel-works in Sheffield's 'East End', and passing between them was like walking through a scene from Dante. Sometimes you'd even see little streams of molten steel running across the pavement, and into the gutter. I am sure you can relate to that my friend. I had a pal who was a furnace-man as a lad, and he told me that the first night he started, the furnace-man told him just to stand at the foot of the stairs, hang onto the rail, and get used to the ferocious heat. I worked with a lot of blokes who had come out of the steel works after witnessing one too many accident, or being injured themselves, they were certainly dangerous places.

A fine photo Bill :) :thumbsup:
Jack, the steel mill was a very dangerous place indeed. I witnessed many fatalities in my brief time at Youngstown. Part of our safety training was that every one in management had to view every fatal accident scene (sometimes with the corpse in place):eek:. I suffered a couple of accidents myself that left a few scars on me for a reminder:thumbsdown:. I spent time in the Open Hearth and Blast Furnace departments and your reference to Dante's Inferno is spot on. Later, after leaving the mill for my career in special chemicals, I focused on continuous caster and electric furnace water systems and the chemical treatment of them. Traveled to mills all over the world but strangely enough never to the UK. After a number of years I found myself no longer going to steel mills but rather oil refineries and petrochemical plants. Also very dangerous places.:eek:
 
Jack, the steel mill was a very dangerous place indeed. I witnessed many fatalities in my brief time at Youngstown. Part of our safety training was that every one in management had to view every fatal accident scene (sometimes with the corpse in place):eek:. I suffered a couple of accidents myself that left a few scars on me for a reminder:thumbsdown:. I spent time in the Open Hearth and Blast Furnace departments and your reference to Dante's Inferno is spot on. Later, after leaving the mill for my career in special chemicals, I focused on continuous caster and electric furnace water systems and the chemical treatment of them. Traveled to mills all over the world but strangely enough never to the UK. After a number of years I found myself no longer going to steel mills but rather oil refineries and petrochemical plants. Also very dangerous places.:eek:

That's pretty grim Bill, I'm glad that you survived without too many scars! :eek: I had a pal, 'Big John', who worked 12 hours shifts, 7 days a week at Shardlows. He was dead just before he was 30. Not from an accident, but nobody he knew thought those long hours and hard work wasn't a factor :( :thumbsup:

I received this interesting paperwork, from 1911, as a Christmas gift :thumbsup:

Hw1jWSf.jpg
 
That's pretty grim Bill, I'm glad that you survived without too many scars! :eek: I had a pal, 'Big John', who worked 12 hours shifts, 7 days a week at Shardlows. He was dead just before he was 30. Not from an accident, but nobody he knew thought those long hours and hard work wasn't a factor :( :thumbsup:

I received this interesting paperwork, from 1911, as a Christmas gift :thumbsup:

Hw1jWSf.jpg
I could use some of that steel so simple I could make good tools!
A silent lambsfoot:
kDBCgKQ.jpg
 
Very nice photos of your HHB Jack:thumbsup:. I always enjoy seeing what food you are high lighting because of the various things that you eat across the pond compared to what we typically enjoy.

Good morning Guardians and all. I had a rough weekend and start of the new week.:eek: One of my best friends passed away from COVID:(. In peak health and only 69 years of age. Struck down in a matter of days. He died alone because there is no visitation for COVID patients and based on conversations with his wife it was a terrible death. This is a terrible disease. I've had several relatives and one child contract COVID and they all recovered but some spent weeks in a hospital whilst others had minor symptoms. Please take care and stay vigilant.
Similar photo as yesterday but at a slightly different angle.
View attachment 1485156
Sorry for your loss!
 
You're on my 'ignore' list B B.F.U . I don't recall why, but it's a very small list, and I do not add posters to it without good cause. That said, I appreciate what you say. It's rather a curse for younger folks today that their internet history will come back to haunt them, and I do feel people deserve a second chance. However, I don't think you can post a half-written article here, containing a lot of mistakes, and a certain amount of misinformation, and expect posters here to correct it for you. I've been a professional writer for most of my life, and I hope you won't mind if I give you some advice, which is intended to be helpful, not patronising. You have one name, and one reputation, so don't risk tarnishing either by publishing information you have not thoroughly researched. Don't confuse guesses with facts, and if you do use conjecture, make sure you make it clear that's what it is, or someone will come along and punch big holes in your 'facts', and you'll end up looking foolish. When you publish an article about a subject, you're presenting yourself as an authority, so don't write it until you ARE an authority. I've been quietly writing an article about the Lambsfoot knife for a couple of years, and I still realise more research is needed. Instead of presenting the readers of your blog with an article which will add to the huge amount of misinformation on the internet, why not keep it short, and tell them what you actually KNOW. You could tell them about your solitary Lambsfoot, and why you like it so much (and hopefully why you regret spoiling it with an easy-open notch). You have very limited experience of the pattern, and your opinions about it may change overtime, as you acquire new ones for example, so why not moderate your ambition? This is not meant to be criticism, enthusiasm is commendable, don't be dispirited, but try not to make mistakes either. An example of this is your discussion about sailor's knives, the Lambsfoot is not a sailor's knife, and so far as I know, has no connection to the water. There's some very good discussion about sailor's knives in one of Charlie @waynorth's threads if you're interested in the subject, but it's worth noting that one of the Sheffield 'Town Patterns' is a Boat Knife, similar in design to a Dadley or Kephart-style knife. It has been produced for over a hundred years, sells very well, and is still in production today. It has a pointed end :thumbsup:

Thank you for your response and advice. I take it with genuine gratitude.

I understand that it might seem to be asking a lot to post the article before it was finished here for input, but I did that specifically because I respect the opinions of the many members here who know more than me on the subject. I didn't do it to try to get free ghost writing or to ask the members here to edit an article for me. Rather I was looking for feedback on specific points where I might have made mistakes. So far your feedback on the section of the article related to the U.K.'s preference for blunt tipped knives due to more maritime workers is the only content related feedback I've received, and it is very helpful and appreciated. Not only do I see how that point is a stretch, it also doesn't support the paragraph's main purpose. I have read it suggested here that the U.K. tends to prefer more blunt tipped designs than the U.S. because of the lower likelihood of accident on the water, but I've also read it suggested that it could be due to protectionary laws throughout the U.K.'s history against pointed knives, I'm sure among other influences.

That said, I don't and won't regret putting the pseudo easy open on my Waynorth Lambfoot. It makes the knife more usable to me without taking much if anything away from the aesthetics, in my opinion. I highly doubt the makers and users of Lambfoot knives in the so revered age of cutlery in the early and mid 20th century would scoff at such a small and practical modification. I looked back at my previous posts in this thread to see if I could identify where I transgressed. It seems like some of my posts must have been deleted, but I do see now my last reply after posting my Waynorth. I don't think that's where it originated, but I might have compounded it by posting that modded knife and defending my choice to do the mod.
 
Thank you for your response and advice. I take it with genuine gratitude.

I understand that it might seem to be asking a lot to post the article before it was finished here for input, but I did that specifically because I respect the opinions of the many members here who know more than me on the subject. I didn't do it to try to get free ghost writing or to ask the members here to edit an article for me. Rather I was looking for feedback on specific points where I might have made mistakes. So far your feedback on the section of the article related to the U.K.'s preference for blunt tipped knives due to more maritime workers is the only content related feedback I've received, and it is very helpful and appreciated. Not only do I see how that point is a stretch, it also doesn't support the paragraph's main purpose. I have read it suggested here that the U.K. tends to prefer more blunt tipped designs than the U.S. because of the lower likelihood of accident on the water, but I've also read it suggested that it could be due to protectionary laws throughout the U.K.'s history against pointed knives, I'm sure among other influences.

That said, I don't and won't regret putting the pseudo easy open on my Waynorth Lambfoot. It makes the knife more usable to me without taking much if anything away from the aesthetics, in my opinion. I highly doubt the makers and users of Lambfoot knives in the so revered age of cutlery in the early and mid 20th century would scoff at such a small and practical modification. I looked back at my previous posts in this thread to see if I could identify where I transgressed. It seems like some of my posts must have been deleted, but I do see now my last reply after posting my Waynorth. I don't think that's where it originated, but I might have compounded it by posting that modded knife and defending my choice to do the mod.

Sorry B B.F.U I appreciate your good intentions, but I'm not able to go through your article, and point out everything that is wrong with it. Whoever told you that about the reasons for the differences between US and UK knife preferences has misinformed you I think. I would just repeat that you might want to postpone writing such an article :thumbsup:

I did not put you on my ignore list because I dislike your 'easy open' notch @L. H. S! :D You're welcome to defend it as much as you like, and if you like it fair enough, I'm just telling you that it isn't traditional to a Lambsfoot knife. The important thing about previous Lambsfoot models is that none of those cutlers felt the need to add an 'easy-open' notch (and neither did Charlie). Anyway, good luck to you, but while that might not be what you're looking for, I doubt anyone here is going to re-write your article for you :thumbsup:
 
I think that's Olden Days simple Jer! :D Nice set-up there, and isn't that the actual original Silent Lambsfoot (Charlie re-activated the thread earlier)?! :D :) :thumbsup:
That's it. The first one you sent me. I'd forgotten that thread was about these; I just remembered Pertinux's riff on Silence of the Lambs.
And to continue the rugged outdoor theme,
rCdVKo2.jpg
 
That's it. The first on you sent me. I'd forgotten that thread was about these; I just remembered Pertinux's riff on Silence of the Lambs.
And to continue the rugged outdoor theme,
rCdVKo2.jpg

I always thought that was your riff Jer, I'm going to have to go and find it now! One of the funniest posts I've ever read :D :thumbsup:

Great pic buddy, here it is before it left Yorkshire :) :thumbsup:

hQd1Ob0.jpg


Edit Aha!! It was @Woodrow F Call ! :cool:

Jack Black: I just ran away.
Pertinux: No "just", Jack. What set you off? You started at what time?
Jack Black: Early, still dark.
Pertinux: Then something woke you, didn't it? Was it a dream? What was it?
Jack Black: I heard a strange noise.
Pertinux: What was it?
Jack Black: It was... clanging. Some kind of clanging, like a broken trash compactor.
Pertinux: What did you do?
Jack Black: I went downstairs, outside. I crept up into the barn. I was so scared to look inside, but I had to.
Pertinux: And what did you see, Jack? What did you see?
Jack Black: Lambs foot knives. The Lambs foot knives were clanging.
Pertinux: They were throwing away the stainless steel Lambs foot knives?
Jack Black: And they were clanging.
Pertinux: And you ran away?
Jack Black: No. First I tried to buy them. I... I offered money to the vendor, but they wouldn't sell. They just stood there, confused. They wouldn't sell.
Pertinux: But you could and you did, didn't you?
Jack Black: Yes. I took one Lambs foot knife, and I ran away as fast as I could.
Pertinux: Where were you going, Jack?
Jack Black: I don't know. I didn't have any food, any water and it was very cold, very cold. I thought, I thought if I could save just one, but... it was a copy. Just a copy. I didn't get more than a few miles when the sheriff's car picked me up. The vendor was so angry he sent me to live at the Pub in Yorkshire. I never saw the shop again.
 
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