Guided sharpening system - which one?

[crowley213]

Long time not posted here. In the meantime I learned (more or less) to sharpen by hand, using mostly Shapton Glass stones for kitchen knives and diamond for my pocket knives.

While I am overall capable to get my knifes properly sharpened I still face some obstacles:
- I still struggle to get consistent angles, especially with smaller knifes!
- It takes me quite a while to sharpen a knife!

As more and more friends and neighbors are asking me to also sharpen their kitchen knives I was thinking to get me a guided sharpening system so that I can get consistent results and also get the knives done in a reasonable time.

My question(s) now:
- Would the Wicked Edge WE 130 be a good system, considering I would use it around 80% for kitchen knives (3-9" long) and occasionally for my pocket knifes?
- Is the WE 130 capable, together with the Low Angle Adapter, to sharpen also Japanese kitchen knives with angles around 10 degrees?
- Is my understanding correct that using the WE system makes most sense with diamond stones?
- Which grid progression would you recommend for working mainly on kitchen knives?
- Would you also recommend the WE stropping packs? If yes, which one?

Another option I saw could be the Hapstone system? Which system (WE or Hapstone) would you recommend for my intended usage?

Any tips, advice and hints welcome!

Herbert

 

[777 Edge]

Hi Herbert, I use, collect and own most sharpening systems available and honestly I would absolutely recommend a Hapstone R2 system for it's versatility, quality and value for money.

You mention that most of your sharpening will be kitchen knives. A Hapstone R2 with multiple clamps also works much better with long and thin knives than any single clamp system does. Using any single clamp system like the WE, can never fully support long blades to stop flexing.

 

[yoko]

I've done a lot of sharpening and am very happy with my hapstone r2

 

[Bob9466]

I would also recommend the hapstone r2.

 

[crowley213]

Hi Herbert, I use, collect and own most sharpening systems available and honestly I would absolutely recommend a Hapstone R2 system for it's versatility, quality and value for money.

You mention that most of your sharpening will be kitchen knives. A Hapstone R2 with multiple clamps also works much better with long and thin knives than any single clamp system does. Using any single clamp system like the WE, can never fully support long blades to stop flexing.

Thank you all very much for the information.

Hope you don't mind that I dare to ask some more questions:

- Which Hapstone model would you recommend?
- Which potential necessary accessories (clamps, etc.) for the recommended model would you additionally suggest?
- Which sharpening stones would you recommend (type, grid progression)?
- Is stropping also recommended using the system or is that then done by hand?

From what I "understand", with my still very limited knowledge about such systems:
- The Hapstone system would be more flexible and versatile for my intended usage and different type of knives?
- The Hapstone system would still follow a "standard" sharpening process, means one side at a time, but the system would allow changing sides by rotating the knives in the device, so no re-clamping necessary?

Herbert

 

[yoko]

No re clamping but I still check angles

 

[Bob9466]

I use the hapstone r2 with venev diamond stones. As for clamps 777 edge would be your best resource.

 

[3D Anvil]

No comment on which system, but I think you may be mistaken if you think a fixed angle system will be faster than freehand sharpening. I find it's quite the opposite.

 

[777 Edge]

Thank you all very much for the information.

Hope you don't mind that I dare to ask some more questions:

- Which Hapstone model would you recommend?
- Which potential necessary accessories (clamps, etc.) for the recommended model would you additionally suggest?
- Which sharpening stones would you recommend (type, grid progression)?
- Is stropping also recommended using the system or is that then done by hand?

From what I "understand", with my still very limited knowledge about such systems:
- The Hapstone system would be more flexible and versatile for my intended usage and different type of knives?
- The Hapstone system would still follow a "standard" sharpening process, means one side at a time, but the system would allow changing sides by rotating the knives in the device, so no re-clamping necessary?

Herbert

Hi Herbert,

Any of the Hapstone R2 models will be just fine but for most versatility in your case, I would recommend a Hapstone R2 standard (with its angled clamps). The angled clamps are incredibly versatile and can be used stacked side-by-side as a "center" clamp, or be angled outwards and be used as a very wide 2 point clamp system. Be sure to get a digital angle cube, fine tuning adapter and some spring assisted stops to make the system perfect. All of these accessories are available from Gritomatic.

Regarding stones, the Venev Centaur stones are excellent value for money and great quality. Stropping can be done with the same system, using pasted strops.

Yes - correct, no re-clamping is necessary. You simply rotate the whole knife clamp assembly 180 degrees to do the other side.

 

[000Robert]

I've never used a Hapstone, but I love my Wicked Edge WE130. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Some people build setups with 2 or 3 Wicked Edge vises inline to sharpen long knives and swords. The WE130 should be fine for kitchen knives. You don't need to use much pressure with the stones anyway while sharpening.

 

[crowley213]

Okay, I finally pulled the trigger and ordered the following Hapstone system from Gritomatic, as they seem to have gotten all the systems back in stock on Wednesday:
- Hapstone R2 Standard
- Venev Centaur (3*2) stone set
- Fine Tuning Adapter, Digital Gauge, Spring-Assisted Stoppers, Scissors Module
- some strops

The shipment is scheduled to arrive next Monday and then I will do my very first tests and trials. Nevertheless I have still a few additional questions:
- The description of the R2 states sharpening angles from 12 to 40 degrees. Is it also possible to sharpen some kitchen knives (e.g. Japanese kitchen knives) with angles down to 10 degrees? Do I need here maybe special clamps?
- Is it necessary, and if how, to "maintain" the Venev diamond stones (e.g. flattening, lapping)?
- The finest grid of the Venev Centaur diamond stones is 1,200. Is that fine enough for kitchen knifes or would it make sense to get also finer stones, for example 2,000 and 5,000 grid (e.g. from Shapton).

Sorry for my beginners questions, but I already learned that knife sharpening is quiet a complex topic, so there are quiet some questions arising...!

Again, any advice, tips and hints are very welcome!

Herbert

 

[Albin]

I have the original designed Work Sharp belt system. I've had very good luck bringing old beat up blades and knives back with this tool. The vast majority of the time, I use the Purple/fine belt and just touch up an edge. Very rarely do I need to use the Red/Medium belt. The only time I use the Green/Coarse belt is for axes and hatchets.

 

[777 Edge]

Okay, I finally pulled the trigger and ordered the following Hapstone system from Gritomatic, as they seem to have gotten all the systems back in stock on Wednesday:
- Hapstone R2 Standard
- Venev Centaur (3*2) stone set
- Fine Tuning Adapter, Digital Gauge, Spring-Assisted Stoppers, Scissors Module
- some strops

The shipment is scheduled to arrive next Monday and then I will do my very first tests and trials. Nevertheless I have still a few additional questions:
- The description of the R2 states sharpening angles from 12 to 40 degrees. Is it also possible to sharpen some kitchen knives (e.g. Japanese kitchen knives) with angles down to 10 degrees? Do I need here maybe special clamps?
- Is it necessary, and if how, to "maintain" the Venev diamond stones (e.g. flattening, lapping)?
- The finest grid of the Venev Centaur diamond stones is 1,200. Is that fine enough for kitchen knifes or would it make sense to get also finer stones, for example 2,000 and 5,000 grid (e.g. from Shapton).

Sorry for my beginners questions, but I already learned that knife sharpening is quiet a complex topic, so there are quiet some questions arising...!

Again, any advice, tips and hints are very welcome!

Herbert

Congratulations Herbert! You've got a great setup there. It was a good idea to order the scissors module also, they are well worth it and really affordable.

The way the Hapstone unit is designed, you could (in theory) get an angle lower than 0 degrees. Obviously you won't sharpen at a that angle but the unit itself has no lower angle limit. The clamps of course will have a low limit. You could possibly be able to go as low as 10 degrees (depending on the width of the blade and how far it stands out from the clamps).

Regarding Venev stone maintenance, get yourself a cheap little "King Nagura" stone on Amazon. They are excellent at cleaning and conditioning the Venev stones. Simply rub the nagura over the surface of the Venev stone when needed and they will clean right up in no time. As far as flattening is concerned, they come ready to use these days and will only need flattening after hundreds of knives. When they eventually need flattening one day, then standard methods of flattening stones work just as well on the Venev stones.

The grit of the Venev stones is Fepa-F rating, which is vastly different from the Shapton rating you are referring to. The 1200 grit Fepa-F Venev, would be about the same or even possibly slightly finer than a 5000 grit JIS (Japanese rating) stone, so the 1200 Venev is more than fine enough for any knife.

Enjoy your Hapstone and let us know how it goes!

 

[crowley213]

Regarding Venev maintenance, get yourself a cheap little "King Nagura" stone on Amazon. They are excellent at cleaning and conditioning the Venev stones. Simply rub the nagura over the Venev when needed and they will clean right up in no time.

Hope you don't mind if I ask some additional questions regarding this topic:
I already owe a "Suehiro Nagura Stone" with a grit of 1,000. Would that stone work for cleaning? Or would you recommend another stone?
I only find one King Japanese Nagura Stone in Amazon, but it has a grit of 8,000. Would that be the correct stone?
Do I need different grits for the cleaning stone(s), considering the different grits of my Venev stones?

Herbert

 

[777 Edge]

Hope you don't mind if I ask some additional questions regarding this topic:
I already owe a "Suehiro Nagura Stone" with a grit of 1,000. Would that stone work for cleaning? Or would you recommend another stone?
I only find one King Japanese Nagura Stone in Amazon, but it has a grit of 8,000. Would that be the correct stone?
Do I need different grits for the cleaning stone(s), considering the different grits of my Venev stones?

Herbert

Hi Herbert,

No problem, ask as much as you want. Happy to help.

Yes, it's the 8000 king Nagura I referred to. Gritomatic also has a few different Nagura and Bodrid stones that do just as good of a job.

I have not tried the Suehiro Nagura on the Venev stones but I assume it would work just fine. The grit is mostly irrelevant when it comes to using a Nagura as a cleaning stone on the Venevs. If you use a Nagura as a slurry stone (or some natural stones as an example), then the grit would be more relevant.

I would say - give it a go and see, it will likely work just fine.

No need for any specific grits of cleaning stone for each Venev stone, just the one will do fine.

 

[Tobias_N]

It looks like Hapstone have released a new clamp that they call Opti:

Hapstone R2 Opti Knife Sharpene - Made in Hapstone. Buy now!

Hapstone R2 Knife Sharpener is part of the Hapstone Modular Platform, to let customers configure and upgrade the sharpening system with no limitations.

hapstone.pro

This clamp looks like it's thinner and might therefore be able to get a lower angle, then the standard clamp?
Not sure if Gritomatic have this in stock and concidering the situation in Ukraine I guess it will be very hard to get your hands on it, if Gritomatic don't have it in stock already.

 

[crowley213]

Hi Herbert,

No problem, ask as much as you want. Happy to help.

Thank you very much for all the information you provide, it definitely helps and I really appreciate it.

I will for sure get back as soon as I have done my first trials with the new system!

Herbert

 

[crowley213]

It looks like Hapstone have released a new clamp that they call Opti:

I have seen these new clamps on the Gritomatic website. They are available in two forms, straight and angled.

I will now first check how the standard clamps work and what angle they can give me (depending on the width of the blade) and then go from there.

Herbert

 

[cudgee]

I already owe a "Suehiro Nagura Stone" with a grit of 1,000

I have a Nagura stone of 1000 grit and it works fine on my venev stones. You can also run them under some warm water with some dish washing liquid and a tooth brush giving them a scrub, it also helps keep them clean and cutting fine. But yes to your original question.

 

[crowley213]

I have a Nagura stone of 1000 grit and it works fine on my venev stones. You can also run them under some warm water with some dish washing liquid and a tooth brush giving them a scrub, it also helps keep them clean and cutting fine. But yes to your original question.

Thanks you very much, I will give it a try and see how it works!

Herbert