Guy Williams

I was figuring just bending the blade in the opposite direction & hoping it'd straighten.

The pin's in place.
My smallest pair of noodle-nose pliers will fit in the nut holes, but barely & I don't want to enlarge the holes by trying too hard with an ill-fitting tool.

Does Amazon carry the chain nose versions?
Denis
 
DPris said:
I was figuring just bending the blade in the opposite direction & hoping it'd straighten.
Click to expand...

The blade is tempered hard and springy. Not sure how you were planning on bending it, but with Japanese blades we use a bench vise and three dowels.

DPris said:
The pin's in place.
My smallest pair of noodle-nose pliers will fit in the nut holes, but barely & I don't want to enlarge the holes by trying too hard with an ill-fitting tool.

Does Amazon carry the chain nose versions?
Denis
Click to expand...

They do.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Something obviously occurred to bend it off center to begin with, so I'm just hoping I can reverse the process, temper & all. :)
I'll try Amazon.
Denis
 
Steve,
Pliers are in.
Considering the way my luck normally runs, I was astounded to find they actually worked & the nut was not rusted on solid.
VERY much appreciate the help there.

In taking it & the pommel cap off, appears I'll have to try a dual-shim approach.

Had hoped a washer under the guard & fully tightening the nut again could solve the guard's minor rotational problem, but I can see it won't.
Think it'll need a shim/spacer jammed on one side or the other (possibly both) between the guard and the hilt section it sits in under the cap to mechanically prevent rotation. A tight nut, as the squirrel said to the adult film star, won't completely solve the problem.

Maybe a combination of washer & two spacers.
Spacers might be cut from wood, or might use JB Weld.
If JB Weld, not ideal because it'd pretty much glue the parts together, making it harder to disassemble again some day if needed.
Also not very "authentic" to the sword. :)
Thoughts?
Denis
 
You could add material to the blade opening in the guard by adding solder or brazing, then file to fit. Or, stretch the opening smaller using a blunt chisel or punch. There is another Japanese method that adds brass inserts on both ends of the slot, then sized. On one sword, I simply wedge one side of the opening with a dime. That is a different build though and you are having to deal with your handle parts.

Good luck.

GC
 
Figured the simplest would be to attack the problem from the small end of the guard, but might do that PLUS something at the big end. :)

Easier with limited skills & abilities to fill in the rear gaps than to "smallen" the front slot, but may try both ends.
Solder would be easier, but softer in that front slot, than brazing. Think it'd hold well enough?

I don't have any welding equipment, but a buddy does.
That's a possibility.
Denis
 
Thinking further.
Howbout, instead of building up the forward guard slot with solder or brazing & then filing the "new" slot to fit, a small disk of steel, fairly thin, with a slot in it.

The disk slot could be filed carefully to fit, easy to slide up & down the blade as progressive filing on its slot is done till it does fit tightly, then the disk itself could be soldered inside the guard, to fit between the guard and the steel section at the top of the handle.
Outer edges of the disk could be filed to an oblong shape, so it would match up with the contours of that steel piece & not be visible.

Maybe?
Yes?
No?
Denis
 
That would work but seems more complicated than just smashing the guard to make the slot smaller. :) Not having it in front of me, I don't know which is going to be the easiest.

Cheers

GC
 
Are you referring to hammering the area around the slot, to spread the immediate area & hopefully shrink the slot a bit?
I may not be understanding you, but seems risky in deforming the curve.
Denis
 
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Yes, displacing metal.Using a punch or chisel next to the slot is not going to affect the guard much. The hard part will be finding a hard spot to act as the anvil. Again, I don't have the piece in front of me, so have few of the particulars.

Cheers

GC
 
I think the slot's cut too big, too much gap around the blade.
It'd take more hammering & material displacement than I'd feel comfortable with.
Denis
 
Denis,

I don't think you are gonna like my answer, but I'm gonna give it anyway, and let you run with it however you want.

Wasn't much into handyman stuff until I joined the Navy when I was 21, and had a friend on the ship who was a Machinery Repairman and let me use the equipment in his shop, which I found I enjoyed very much.

I have really messed up some stuff bad between then and now, and have learned 95% of the time when to walk away from a project because I didn't have the tools for it(I have a lot of tools) or the skill(that is arguable)

There is a precision to the fit of the guard. A good welder can help you, not just someone with a welding unit....there are different types of welders and different types of welding rod to use depending upon the material being welded.

IF you want to do this project right, you will start enlisting the help of those in your area who are skilled in the disciplines that you need help with.....and there are those who would help with the sharpening....did you contact Albion or Museum Replicas, as a start?

Project like this requires thought and finesse, experience and expertise, not a backyard approach, and no JB weld....that is just not even legit.

I wish you the greatest outcome and the wisdom to move at the right speed.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Good advice, STeven. I'm curious about what exactly the project entails. Pics?
Click to expand...

Hey CF..Just like a lot of sword fittings that take down, it is compression and precision....I didn't take pics of mine because it would have interrupted the flow of work and was not interested in a WIP, and am sure as hell not gonna disassemble it now that it is done.

I MAY put on a new leather piece between the guard and scabbard. If I do, that will show the slot and pin assembly.

Denis might be able to show pics of the sword taken down.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I'm interested in taking the "best" overall route in terms of effort & likelihood of success.
I threw in the JB Weld as a conversation piece, have no desire to use it. Actually quite surprised at the lack of horrified response.
Don't even have any. :)

As far as brazing goes, the buddy used to teach welding at a college & has a well-equipped machine shop.
Blacksmith experience.
Degree in automotive engineering.
Used to run his own repair shop.
Very very good with conceptualizing & hands-on improvisation in a wide area of metalwork.

Also has an anvil. :)

I'm not taking anything you say lightly & do appreciate your comments.

My sample has a much better blade condition than yours did.
Unfortunately, whoever fitted the guard to the sword did a very poor job.
There's a notable gap on both sides up front between the blade & the guard material in that slot.
Marked rotation of the guard, not just a minor bit of play.
Really quite loose. It rattles.

Using wood spacers on both sides of the back end of the guard would remove most of the movement, but still leave some play in the front.

In thinking through the various methods, I see a risk in material displacement of deforming the curve around the slot. It'd take quite a bit of impact over a relatively wide area there to tighten up that slot gap.

In building up solder & removing excess material, have a concern about the softness of the solder as a mass in bearing against steel.
Probably not an issue, if the sword never gets itself into battle, but... :)
Also, with the broadly cupped guard, not easy to remove excess material on the inside "flat" of the guard, to allow the handle to fit flush against it again.
Dremel with the right head & much care, I suppose.
I don't have a Dremel, the buddy might.

Brazing would build up a stronger bearing surface against the blade, but would be harder (literally & figuratively) to remove excess material.
Again, Dremel, I'd think, on the flats. Files inside the notch would not be much of a problem.
The buddy should be able to do precise enough work on it, but there's also the risk of heat warping on the guard.

My thoughts on the small disk are that it could be rough-cut out of sheet steel, rough-ground to shape, drilled center to provide a starting point for the slot, filed in the slot to fit tight on the blade, filed to final contour on the outside edge, and soldered around its edges onto the guard.

Smaller flat part should be much easier to do the work on than the bigger multi-curved guard.
No soft solder bearing on steel.
No danger of heat warpage on the guard.

If I go that route, I can do most of it myself, except for the soldering.
If I go the welding route, I'll have the buddy do it.
A different alternative would even be to have my gunsmith work on it.
No doubt whatever about the skills & equipment there.

I know my limitations. :)
I want it done right.

I have not contacted Albion or Windlass.
This'll be a slow project, has not fully rotated around yet.
Still in Contemplation Phase.

I may just go with the first 8 inches or so on the edge, as suggested, after all.
If I do, I can handle that much myself.
Denis
 
You need some degree of play in the slot in order to re-position the tab of the hilt back into the slot between the spacer and the buttcap.

You can have the top of the slot welded in some spots, doesn't need to be a bead all the way around. File it flush and clear out as much of the bead as needed to make it snug and stop rattling...no Dremel required....and it won't warp. This is basically the way the Japanese fit hilts....the slot is oversized and they bang the four corners with a punch, which moves the metal. Like this:
2m42f69.jpg

Remember that this area will be hidden by that piece of leather....you can make it not pretty, but it will be plenty tight and not show...if it is done right, it won't even look bad from the inside.

Does this make sense?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Yes, it does.
Every tsuba I've seen has been markedly thicker than the steel on this guard, and seriously- the slot is so far oversized & sloppy I don't see punching/displacement as making any real difference.

Top & bottom and sides are all gapped, there was no precision mating whatever when this sword was built.

Might be able to get by with a couple small beads on both sides & one on either top or bottom of the slot.
If small enough, it'd be easier to dress down off the flat of the outside of the guard, instead of the inside, and it would be covered by the leather.

At this point, I'm thinking it'll go to my gunsmith for that.
Thanks again.
Denis
 
Actually, the sword used by Guy Williams in the Zorro TV series of the 1950's was a (then current) sport sabre "Hungarian" type guard on a leather sport sabre grip and with a non-electrical, non-FIE epee blade. After three years of searching invain on eBay and other sites, I found such a guard on a Facebook group late last year. Can't find the exact same pommel though.

 
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