H1 plain edge retention question.

M

Mora2013

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Dec 1, 2013
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I'm looking at getting my first syderco salt knife, likely dragonfly.

After searching, it seems that quite a few folks suggest that the salt series H1 plain edge has relatively poor edge retention, similar to aus-8.

Unfortunately, I have no knives in aus-8, so I have no comparison.

I'm mostly a traditional knife guy, and have most experience with victorinox stainless, leatherman 420hc, case tru-sharp stainless, opinel stainless, mora carbon, and buck 420j2.

I am presuming that H1 plain edge for the most part should still be better in retention than the steels that I am used to using, is this a fair statement?
 
Basically H1 is not a hardened steel so its not going to be as hard as other knives but I'd say a lot of people underrate H1. Ive never had any problems with it but I would not use it as my primary steel for a knife. Its good for what its meant for, not rusting, but as for cutting, theres better options since for edge retention, a hardened knife will do that better.
 
BFC member Ankerson has performed cutting and edge retention testing on numerous steels. He ranks steels into sub-groups based on his results. Of course his results must be taken with a grain of salt (different steels can be made to perform better or worse depending on final heat treat and sharpening grit), but I feel his data provides a very good starting point for comparisons.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...utting-5-8-quot-rope?highlight=ankerson+steel
 
Hi Mora,

H1 is not heat treated in the traditional way. The steel is work hardened in the manufacturing and processing of blades. Edge retention in the plain edge config would be about the steels that you listed. It does sharpen easily, and gets very sharp. In the serrated config, it will stay sharper longer than anything we've tested to date.

sal
 
OP I have often sharpened a PE Pacific Salt, Dragonfly and Aqua Salt for a friend who fishes every week, beach and boat. H1 is pretty easy to sharpen and to be honest the edge holding seems to me to be rather 420ish at best. He loves them as they are regularly in the surf, cutting bait and cleaning fish, rinsed off in the tide and they just don't rust. At all.

I don't have a serrated folder. If I get one it will be H1 which by all accounts is stellar in the edge holding dept..
 
I had a PE Atlantic Salt reprofiled and flat ground by Krein back in 2008. I've used it for everything imaginable. Cutting old carpet into manageable pieces was very hard in the edge, but with a short session in a fine DMT stone and then the Sharpmaker, it was back in action. I like how tough and easily maintainable H1 is. I guess in a way it reminds me of Victorinox steel. Sure it's not S110V in the edge holding dept, but it's very enjoyable to use in my opinion.
 
It's comparable to the steels you mentioned, perhaps a little better. Do the edge angle to 10 to 12 degrees per side then microbevel 2 to 3 degrees higher to finish the edge. My Salt 1 would hold a nice edge through occasional use for weeks, and only took about 2 minutes to bring back to cutting arm hair above the skin.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Mora,

H1 is not heat treated in the traditional way. The steel is work hardened in the manufacturing and processing of blades. Edge retention in the plain edge config would be about the steels that you listed. It does sharpen easily, and gets very sharp. In the serrated config, it will stay sharper longer than anything we've tested to date.

sal
Click to expand...

How far into the blade (from edge to spine) does the work hardening manage to essentially "harden" the blade?

I am sure this reading would have had to have been taken. Since you test the blades for an HRC average, how far back from the stock shoulder location did you notice the drop in HRC.

Will customers that own the PE version eventually run into a less hardened section due to sharpening back beyond the work hardened section, this being expedited by the comparative softness of the alloy?

What about the higher hardness of the SE version?
Does the higher work hardened edge push the HRC up further closer to the spine thus allowing for a longer "service life"?

Thanks.
 
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It's differential in it's hardening in that the hardest at the edge and softest at the spine. I don't think one will sharpen it back to where it's not as hard. We believe that serrated version is harder at the edge due to greater "work".

sal
 
Right now.^
My P-Salt has been in my rotation since last summer, doing basic cutting. The Spyderedge just handles all my cutting tasks with ease. And, I do take care of all my tools but it's nice knowing no matter what, this knife will not rust.
Thanks!
rolf
 
AUS8 was at one time a steel no one complained about the edge retention. Those days are long gone because we are spoiled with steels like ZDP-189, S110V, and etc. But, in reality, edge holding like that will get through a couple of deer for a hunter. So, plain edge H1 should be just fine. Many will tell you to get a serrated edge as the edge retention is greater.
 
I would say AUS 8 is way more desirable as an edge holding knife steel alloy than H1 unless you NEED the extreme corrosion resistance of H1.

This is a fun knife to have and I am not giving it up but as far as edge holding my Case Trappers in Case SS do better. It will be interesting to see if it work hardens a little from using my ceramic Ultra Fine sharpening rod on it to touch up. Also I had high hopes for the hook blade shape since I cut rubber coated cloth daily but nah dude, nah the trapper non hooked blade does better. Again, I wouldn't give up the knife it has its place and is a great product.

Pretty much . . . edge geometry can make some serious improvements in edge retention but I have not experimented with it on this knife yet; maybe this summer I will.

 
Do the edge angle to 10 to 12 degrees per side then microbevel 2 to 3 degrees higher to finish the edge.
Click to expand...

Me2,
I just saw your post. Thank you; that will save me some time espirrimentin' with edge geometry.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Mora,

H1 is not heat treated in the traditional way. The steel is work hardened in the manufacturing and processing of blades. Edge retention in the plain edge config would be about the steels that you listed. It does sharpen easily, and gets very sharp. In the serrated config, it will stay sharper longer than anything we've tested to date.

sal
Click to expand...

Mr. Glesser,

I own close to 100 knives. This one (Spyderco Pacific) finds more pocket time than all the others combined. It is a workhorse of a blade. I have cut strapping, rope, cardboard, auto hoses and belts, fish bones and scales, and cleaned small game with it. It stays sharp longer than any other blade I own. I use it daily and it sees itself drenched in the Gulf of Mexico for a week at a time every year. It is so lightweight, I sometimes forget which pocket it is in.

I bought a Spyderco Enuff in VG10 (plain edge) and one in H1 (serrated). I swapped the black scales on the VG10 for the yellow on the H1. I gave the H1 with black scales to my son and he uses it as his primary blade while serving as a military enforcement officer in the U.S. Coast Guard, aboard the USS Valiant, doing drug and migrant interdictions in the Pacific (he is only cleared to wear black scales on duty and the yellow was not approved. He has a few blades as well and says the Enuff in H1 is hands down the best he's ever used.

Thank you sir, for producing these incredible knives in H1.

To the OP, BUY ONE! 15 minutes in the kitchen and you can get it just about any color you want. This Pacific Salt does not come in Orange. I dyed it with RIT dye (Tangerine - NOT the Sunset, it looks too burnt on the yellow FRN). I like the bright colors for the same reason. I use this all the time, especially in the outdoors and it's easy to fing in bright orange when I lay it down.

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Hi Hale Storm,

Thanx much for the kind words and please thank your son for his service.

sal
 
after some years with the Salts, I assure you can't go wrong with any of them. In PE you'll find similar results to Leatherman's 420, Victorinox's stainless or Gerber's 420 HC, the three below.

20170318_103641_zpsvidpte9i.jpg


But the guy you see in the pic, with the SE, will cut up to three or four times what the others will before needing sharpening.
That's been my experience and the reason why all (but one) my Salts have been SE and I've gotten rid of the PE ones.
Both are extremely easy to sharpen and touch up, though.

20170314_194100_zpsnk9ziyjq.jpg


Just my $0.02, congrats on your purchase!
You'll love it!
 
I think not going too fine a grit when sharpening PE H1 benefits edge retention. Keep it course and it will cut a lot longer. Nothing finer than 400 grit worked for me.
 
Mine was sharpened on a Norton Economy stone, coarse, then micro bevel on the fine side. 12/15 degree per side. Held up well and when used for rough duty, sharpened fast. For that type of use, steel is largely irrelevant.
 
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