Hamon line ignoring clay on W2?

L

Leon Husock

Joined
Jul 17, 2019
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285
I’ve been screwing around with hybrid quenches for hamon (2 seconds in water, finish in McMaster fast quench oil) and both times so far it seems like the hamon line is pretty much ignoring the clay patterns and settling about 1/3 of the way in from the edge (See photo). On my first try I figured it had auto-hamon’d because I left the spine too thick, but I ground the second one pretty close to finished and coming out of the quench and first temper it seems like it’s going to be the same. Any idea why this is happening?
 
Photos not showing up.

We need to know how thick was the steel, how thick was the clay, and type of clay, what orevious processing of the steel, (normalized, cycled, etc) and what temp you austentized at, and how long was the soak.
 
if the hardening line is going past the clay (toward the spine), the clay was too thin. if the hardening line is before the clay, it was too thick.
 
Willie71 said:
Photos not showing up.

We need to know how thick was the steel, how thick was the clay, and type of clay, what orevious processing of the steel, (normalized, cycled, etc) and what temp you austentized at, and how long was the soak.
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Hey Willie, sorry about that. The steel's about 1/8" at its thickest point. I'm not sure how thick the clay was, but I left the consistency relatively thin and used a paintbrush rather than globbing it on with a popsicle stick as I have in the past, so maybe that was the problem. I use my forge for my heat treating so my temperatures aren't exact, but I thermo-cycled three times at around critical each time, maybe a little lower if I could get it, not much in the way of soak, just long enough to get the whole thing up to temp. It sounds like from what John was saying that the problem might be me putting less clay on this time than I have on previous blades, but even then I'd expect it to loosely follow the shape of the clay and just not line up with where the clay ends, rather than making a roughly straight line following the edge of the blade like it did.
 
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So you changed how you do your clay and how you do your quench? That's two variables to isolate. It sounds like a clay issue to me but if you do the clay the same way you used to and do the hybrid quench and still get the same results you'll know it's the quench. If it turns out better you'll know it was the claying application.
 
halfsunknives said:
So you changed how you do your clay and how you do your quench? That's two variables to isolate. It sounds like a clay issue to me but if you do the clay the same way you used to and do the hybrid quench and still get the same results you'll know it's the quench. If it turns out better you'll know it was the claying application.
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You know that’s a damn good point. Scientific method, who’d have thought? Lol. I’ll try that out.
 
Clay is there to effect the hamon, not create it.

Try skipping water and go straight into the oil.

Next, get some Park's 50 oil.
 
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Don Hanson III said:
Clay is there you effect the hamon, not create it.

Try skipping water and go straight into the oil.

Next, get some Park's 50 oil.
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Thanks Don! Big fan of your work. Unfortunately I don't quite have the money for a 5 gallon bucket of Parks 50 plus shipping, but I'm definitely planning to get some as soon as I do. I was trying the hybrid quench because I thought I'd get more interesting and active hamons, but after polishing and etching the last blade I did with my usual method (thicker clay, just oil) and having the hamon come out spectacularly I think I'm done messing around with water.
 
Leon Husock said:
Thanks Don! Big fan of your work. Unfortunately I don't quite have the money for a 5 gallon bucket of Parks 50 plus shipping, but I'm definitely planning to get some as soon as I do. I was trying the hybrid quench because I thought I'd get more interesting and active hamons, but after polishing and etching the last blade I did with my usual method (thicker clay, just oil) and having the hamon come out spectacularly I think I'm done messing around with water.
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Good you are figuring it out. I never had much luck with water on W2, just very little hamon activity. If I didn't have park's 50, I'd use warm canola oil.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Good you are figuring it out. I never had much luck with water on W2, just very little hamon activity. If I didn't have park's 50, I'd use warm canola oil.
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Don, what about 1095 with a hybrid water/oil quench? Better than just oil or Parks 50.

I plan to try a hamon on a tanto made with 1095.

Thanks,
Constantin
 
I stopped water quenching a long time ago. Parks 50 will get a nice hamon and won't break blades. Use it at room temperature.
Too much clay is one big issue with many folks new to hamon. 1/16" is plenty.
 
Another thing that greatly improves a hamon is NOT overheating the blade. Use the lower end of the austenitization range for the steel you are using. Also make sure the blade is evenly heated and at one color … but not too high.
 
I've done a couple hamon blades, 1095, but always in my forge, and I'm not terribly worried about getting forge dirty. To the guys that heat ttrea in their oven, how do you keep the refractory cement from getting all over your heatreat oven? Sorry to hijack the thread.
 
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