Harbor Freight belt sander, should I get it?

E

EDCguy

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I've heard people say good things about it, but I'm not sure I'm convinced. I'm about 16 so it's not like have much cash coming to me unless you count Christmas and birthdays. It would really suck to blow 40-60 bucks.

Could you reprofile a knife with this set up? I plan on getting big knives after this and I want to know if I could convex the edges. Why get other belt sanders for the purpose of sharpening over this? How do you like it? Are you happy with it? And where do you get belts in 1"x30"? HF has 2 belts in 1"x30" and they seems a little coarse.

Thanks.
 
Power tools are NOT for beginners.

The HF beltsander works but is not the greatest tool and has some minor issues with its operation. Stick with stones or sandpaper, your knives will thank you.
 
It's not like I haven't used power tools before. When you say my knives will 'thank me', what do you mean by this? Will the sander screw up my edges.
 
EDCguy said:
It's not like I haven't used power tools before. When you say my knives will 'thank me', what do you mean by this? Will the sander screw up my edges.
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Short answer = yes. But for several different reasons. If you are learning to sharpen, it's pretty well accepted that you should start with one of the many manual methods - stones, or one of the devices that help you hold an angle(edge pro, sharpmaker, etc).

Also, it doesn't take a whole lot to ruin the temper on a blade.

But go ahead and buy the cheap belt sander, just don't expect quality or precision. I know a few guys who got that belt sander and they like it just fine. And for the love of god, don't put any knife blades on there that you aren't perpared to muck up, like your mom's favorite kitchen knife.
 
Hi EDCguy,

I think what knifenut is suggesting is that power tools, a belt sander in this case, has some hazards. It is easy to build up heat in your knife and affect or change the temper of the steel. It is also easy to remove more metal than is required for each sharpening which will shorten the lifespan of your cutlery.

It is a good idea to learn to sharpen under the power of your hands before turning to motorized sharpening means.

If you have already made up your mind, then yes the HF sander will work well enough. I have been getting my belts from LeeValley.com but I was recently introduced to supergrit.com as another option.

Another thing to remember is that the finer the grit, the faster the belt will build up heat in your knives.

The fact that you are on this forum and asking questions means you are ahead of the game compared to where I was at your age. Good for you! There is a lot of knowledge available here.

Let us know how you decide to go!

Sincerely,

Doug

PS: I'll do a search for belt sander threads to see if I can help you have some more research before you make your final choice.
 
If you do get it by no means get those belts. Your probably not going to find belts locally that are good for sharpening or even useing on hardened steel. The HF sander is more than good enough for a first time belt sander and will sharpen anything very well once you learn how to use it.My HF belt sander is about 8 years old and it just died. I'll be picking up another.
 
It'll definitely be able to convex your edges. I bought one last year and am glad I did. I've used it for many other non-knife projects as well. If you get the basics down then you can always step up to a NWG later.
 
ChapmanPreferred said:
PS: I'll do a search for belt sander threads to see if I can help you have some more research before you make your final choice.
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I'll try to save you some looking Doug. I started using this very same belt sander over a year ago. I use it to sharpen almost every knife I own. I used this post by Jerry Hossom as my bible. Follow this and it will really even out your learning curve. You will screw up knives with it at first but once you get the hang of it there is no easier way to sharpen a knife. Heres the link good luck http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4916570&postcount=78


The advice about keeping a bucket of water is excellent advice ignore this at your own risk. (ask me how I know )
 
Screwing up heat treats does not sound good at all. I know this is an entirely different topic, but what about paper wheels? I don't know much about them. I know you need a motor. What are the basics of pape wheels? Is there a thread on this?
 
Here is the thread on the paper wheels:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578787

I have yet to try these but I would view them as requiring more skill and definitely more safety precautions than the belt grinder mentioned. Personally, I find the belt approach to be the easiest method of sharpening. But remember, one person's excellent edge may be otherwise seen as crappy to some of the folks around here who are very skilled and seek perfection in their sharpening work. In either case, start with a few inexpensive blades to build some confidence and learn from mistakes.
 
Buy a couple of sheets of wet/dry sandpaper (320 grit and 1000 grit) and a mousepad for a couple of bucks and learn to convex on some 50 cent garage sale knives.

When you've learned the basics, and you're fairly GOOD at it, get the HF 1X30, and you'll be good to go. :thumbup:
 
The HF belt sander is great for reprofiling blades. A bit overkill for just sharpening, I think. It does require care in use. Worn out belts generate lots of heat very quickly and grind much less efficiently. And for sharpening, it'll probably be a good idea to have a leather or similar belt for power stropping.

Paper wheels would seem to typically generate less heat. I don't know if they are any more demanding than the belt sander with regard to safety precautions. Usual power tool precautions apply.
 
shecky said:
similar belt for power stropping.

Paper wheels would seem to typically generate less heat. I don't know if they are any more demanding than the belt sander with regard to safety precautions. Usual power tool precautions apply.
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I would respectfully, but strongly disagree. While a belt sander can easily destroy a blade if misused, a rotary bench grinder with paper wheels will do so much more quickly, and require ten times the level of skill to use properly.

Small, home use type belt sanders have a very low level of actual danger to the user. Bench grinders, whether using paper or other type "wheels" are extremely dangerous to any user not professionally trained.
 
First:
The belt sander will put a CONVEX grind on your knife.
The paper + grit wheels will put a V grind on your knife.

Safety:
You NEED a respirator. If you smell it, you're breathing it. A sharp knife is not worth cancer!
You NEED eye protection! A sharp knife is not worth going blind!
You NEED relatively flame resistant clothing. Some synthetics will burn right up. Wear a cotton shirt, jeans, and SHOES! Preferably an apron too.

I would get accustomed to sharpening by some other method before attempting machines. The Harbor Freight belt sander is EXTREMLY fast, it can mess up both the temper AND the grind in a heartbeat. But with some practice, its use becomes second nature.

I just buy 80 grit belts from HF
I buy 320 and 600 from pops knife supply, as well as buffing compound (stropping compound)
I buy micron grits and leather belt from LeeValley

Ive hear good things about Supergrit, EconAbrasives, Jantz.

On thick knives (3/18 and above) heat is rarely an issue, but its harder to keep a perfectly consistent grind. On thinner knives, heat is a big issue, dunk in cold water every pass.

Make sure you pull the knife towards a SLIGHT bit when sharpening the tip/belly. You need to do this too keep a consistent angle, Jerry Hossom has a great explanation on another "knife" forum.

The whole setup will cost about 70 bucks give or take.

Use the 80 grit for the rough reprofile. Grind about three or four passes per side until you get a nice burr.

Then switch to the 320, and do the same thing until you see that the 320 grit scratch marks have replaced the 80 grit scratch marks. The burr should also be much smaller now.

Now do the same thing with the 600 grit belt.

Those three belts (80,320,600) are the three belts where you really need to watch for heat buildup.

The 15 micron belt is a funny belt. It doesn't have x weight backing so BE CAREFUL! Stop the tip at the middle of the belt or earlier, or risk losing that point! Use this belt to polish both sides until the burr is gone or teeny tiny. Heat build up isn't a whole lot, but pay attention.

Put the final strop with the leather belt loaded with green or white compound. You now should have a very sharp, tough convex edge. Heat is really no problem.

Overheating a blade:
If the blade changes color, you now have a really cool looking butter knife.
If its too hot to touch, it too hot to cut. Dont let it get too hot to touch.
DONT USE GLOVES!! (I know ppl will shit on me for this, but oh well) You can't feel the blade with gloves on.

The most common mistake besides overheating a blade is accidentally grinding the tip off. This happens when you slide the tip of the belt, causing the belt to twist and grind off you tip. Xweight belts help stop some twist, but its still happens. At the farthest, stop in the middle of the belt, then lift the blade off the belt without pushing into the belt at all.

For touch ups, the micron belt and leather belt with suffice 99% of the time. Remember, to keep more metal on your knife, strop often and sharpen rarely.

A belt sander is a great tool. It makes sharpening large knives a breeze!

I have no experience with paper wheels, but you use them to put on a V grind instead of a convex grind the belt sander puts on your knife.

Good luck!!!:D:thumbup:

edit:
Paper wheels are probably much harder. The require you to keep an absolutely perfect angle, grind speed, ect. The slack on the belt of a belt sander will make up for small angular imperfections you have. It will "convex itself." RichardJ, the king of paper wheels, recommends you practice on old hacksaw blades, including going around the ends to simulate the belly of a knife.
 
Thank you all for the feedback. It sounds like I should work on my strop and stone skills before getting a belt sander. I would would rather have these skills than an easy fix. I know sharpening supplies has strops and so does knives ship free. Thanks again.

For practicing what are some really cheap knives to start convexing?
 
Ben Dover said:
I would respectfully, but strongly disagree. While a belt sander can easily destroy a blade if misused, a rotary bench grinder with paper wheels will do so much more quickly, and require ten times the level of skill to use properly.

Small, home use type belt sanders have a very low level of actual danger to the user. Bench grinders, whether using paper or other type "wheels" are extremely dangerous to any user not professionally trained.
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Yeah, we disagree.

zhangmaster12 said:
The belt sander will put a CONVEX grind on your knife.
The paper + grit wheels will put a V grind on your knife.
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If you're talking about the edge bevel, I'd say it depends on how each tool is used, and probably doesn't really matter all that much anyway. A platen on a belt sander does a good job of creating flat bevels. And theoretically, a wheel will create a hollow grind rather than a flat grind. In practice, unless you're using some decent jigs to hold the blade very consistently, you'll probably end up with edge bevels that are at least somewhat convex.
 
shecky said:
Yeah, we disagree.



If you're talking about the edge bevel, I'd say it depends on how each tool is used, and probably doesn't really matter all that much anyway. A platen on a belt sander does a good job of creating flat bevels. And theoretically, a wheel will create a hollow grind rather than a flat grind. In practice, unless you're using some decent jigs to hold the blade very consistently, you'll probably end up with edge bevels that are at least somewhat convex.
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Yea, I meant bevel.
I was focused on the HF grinder. That thing's platen is not worth a cent:D! Good luck flat grinding on that thing.

Guess I should have cleared this up:
With a flat platen, you can flat grind on a belt sander.:thumbup:
 
Knifenut and others have some good advice here. I used to be a fan of the HF sander, until I tried different sanders that ran smoother, then slower, and then one with variable speed. Man, what a difference, and eye opener for me. Even a high speed sander that runs smoother is a better alternative. I think the HF sander is good for reparis, reprofiles, and setting an initial bevel. But for maintaining knives, or doing some of the more detail work that serious knife users here seem to gravitate toward, switching to something less aggressive and/or smoother... your knives will thank you. Even the Sharpening Wheels for me is a better alternative (for sharpening and maintainig an edge, not major repair or major reprofiles).

You can get good results with the HF sander, and is a good part of a sharpening 'arsenal', particularly for repairs, reprofiles, and setting the initial edge, (the $$ and the fact that many of these uses are '1 time only' makes it a good choice), but I would look for other ways to sharpen and maintain my knives. Like I said, until I tried some alternatives, I really didn't see the problems with the HF sander. Obviously my opinion... YMMV.

For some examples:
-- Viel belt sander (Leevalley.com has one). Probably my first recomendation over the HF sander. Smoother, more versatile, and you can put on your own motor to run slower. I later found a variable speed motor on Ebay that I was able to run it with.
-- Craftsman 2x42 sander (also runs 1x42 belts). Fast, but super smooth.
-- MultiTool belt grinding attachment (sharptoolsusa.com has one.) Smooth, and very versatile. I have this set up on a variable speed grinder with a Sharpening Wheel - polish wheel on the other side.... a great setup. (Downside is cost).
-- Haven't used one, but would look at the Kalamazoo 1x42 also. It gets good reviews.

cbw
 
CBW,

Do you have much experience with the Craftsman 2x42 with both the 1 inch and 2 inch belts?? :confused:

TIA

Ben
 
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