Has anyone self-sharpened a Rockstead?

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Feb 11, 2014
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Specifically a ZDP-189 Rockstead with the HON-ZUKURI edge (for me it is the Higo).

I am fairly good at getting a convex edge on a knife freehand, but every time I start thinking about sharpening my Higo I get nervous.

If you have successfully sharpened yours, how did you go about it, and are you happy with the results?

I carried mine and stropped it for about a year straight, and it has been retired since the edge was just too far gone, but I have been hankering to carry it again.

TIA :)
 
It's one of very few knives I have never sharpened and truthfully probably wouldn't want to unless it was my own. The high polish would be very time consuming to replicate and the steel type wouldn't make things any easier. If it's a knife you use and you know how to convex sharpen then just sharpen it. Just keep to the edge and don't lay the blade down to far, it will be easier to blend the scratch pattern.
 
I would not hesitate to sharpen it on my own. If you have other knives and a decent skill with sharpening don't let the hype beat you up. Just sharpen it.

A word of caution sending it back to Rockstead - I had a Rockstead CHI-DLC YXR7 DLC Black Polished Tanto Blade - that I needed to send back to Rockstead because the detent was all gone. Blade would just fall open in my pocket. They - at Rockstead - decided to sharpen it for me though I had not requested. They said the blade was "damaged". I think that was a rough translation for dull, i.e. less than factory specs. It was barely 3 months old and only used as my dress knife :confused: I had no idea that it was "damaged", let alone dull but I guess their microscope revealed a less than perfect edge.

When the knife was returned to me, the transition from the primary edge to the tanto tip was so uneven and unsightly (and scratched) I had no choice but to complain mightily. At least a dozen emails with photos ensued. I asked at the very least, that they accept my knife for a return so that a new blade could be installed. They would not hear of it. No amount of protest could persuade them. I ended up selling my nearly new CHI at a huge loss.

Sorry I have no photographic evidence. This was about a year ago. I was so unhappy with my entire Rockstead experience that after about 6 months, I deleted all photos and emails. Believe or not believe. Proceed at your own risk. My situation could have been (was likely) an outlier and not common. Just sharing so you are aware of potential downsides.

Ray
 
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I agree with Jason, if you want to sharpen it up as a user, just sharpen it with stones or wet/dry over a hard backing like you would any other convex or scandi. I don't think in good conscience I could accept that knife as a job and guarantee the factory finish, at least not for any reasonable sum of money.

If the factory geometry is top notch it could be very easy to replicate the bright finish. If not, every low spot is going to turn into a PITA to blend out, even with diamond lapping film.
 
For light sharpening I use a leather strop with the usual white and black compounds and for heavy sharpening I use another leather strop with two different grit sizes of diamond paste. I manage to keep my Shu extremely sharp in this manner even after relatively hard use; I can still see my reflection in the blade but obviously it loosing its shine
 
You know me. I shouldn't even be in this conversation. All my knives are users . . . haha with scratches on the primary grind but mirror on the edge grind.
The short answer is buy another one to keep in the safe and look at and sharpen the user as best you can.
The idea of a high end knife that is unsharpenable by the user is kind of comical to me.

All that said; and probably ignored by the faithful I have a serious question :
Is this a good argument for using the Wicked Edge ?
Now I know it isn't for convex but with a bit of careful manipulation, producing smaller and smaller facets then a few strops on the paddles . . . ?

How the heck do they do it at the factory ?
Belts ?
One might be able to get a decent variable speed belt machine for the price of a WE set up.
 
How about 3M Film belts to 9 micron followed by a leather wheel with compound and buffing?
 
I've looked at Rockstead on the exchange and there is an ironwood higo that has really captured my imagination.

But I've wondered if their mythical edge and sharpening requirements would preclude me from owning one - I won't own a knife that I can't sharpen.

Personally, I would have no issue putting one (if I owned one) on my Wicked Edge and going at it. Even if it voided warranty or whatever (that's just me, though)

But doing so I realize the perfectly mirror polished edge would be a goner. I'd be ok with that, but some may not.

So I'm interested in this thread, and to the OP I'd say figure out how to sharpen it yourself. Go for it.
 
Each blade is then sharpened and polished by hand on SiC paper & water:

I see.
I've done two knives that way and had great results as far as getting out scratches to a full mirror. The perfectly flat plane of the bevel contrasted with the rest of the blade wouldn't turn out as perfect as the factory but it would be possible to get the mirror.
Set up multiple stations as they have. Be meticulous at cleaning the previous grit off before moving on and keep everything segregated.

Bottom line : time consuming ! Think of it as your meditation.
Practice makes perfect.
 
The idea of a high end knife that is unsharpenable by the user is kind of comical to me.

I have to admit that it really comes down to this. I don't own any knives that I don't use, and not being able to sharpen my own knife is very frustrating. I am going to suck it up, take it careful and attempt a hand sharpening :)

Just a question. It seems that the methods most are stating indicate a edge-trailing stroke (including the SiC paper and water from Rockstead themselves). Is that the preferred method overall? I am used to an edge leading stroke and DMT diamond stones (with a leather strop finish).

Looks like I need to invest in some diamond paste and SiC paper.
 
With SiC paper, you definitely want to go edge-trailing. If the paper isn't fully & securely glued down to a firm backing, edge-leading will tend to make the paper lift, roll or wrap around the edge. Lots of bad things will happen then: the edge will be blunted or rounded and there's a good chance you'll cut or tear the paper as well.
 
Each blade is then sharpened and polished by hand on SiC paper & water:


What is that contraption in front of him? The sand paper holder appears to have electrical contacts on it, a large belt leading out of the rear, and looks like it is tensioned. Then there is the giant bank of switches just in front of these sandpaper stations. Is this maybe a motorized tensioning mechanism with feeding of new paper or something? It's very interesting!

Brian.
 
ok, so here is what I did ...

Took a wood 2x8, put some openings in each end big enough for large binder clips (used my drill). Used self adhesive poster board as a surface.

purchased a set of SiC wet/dry paper off of the big river site (2000, 2500, 3000, 4000, 6000, 8000, 10000 grits). Each sheet cut in half exaclty covers my piece of wood. Binder clips at top and bottom hold the paper firmly against the poster-board. The poster board is a bit stiffer than a mouse pad, but does have some give.

used mineral oil on the first grit (and then realized that it actually makes it harder, it is easier to clear the metal from dry paper, or use a little water)

The clips hold the paper to the poster board tight enough for back and forth motion, but after a bit I settled into just an edge trailing motion.

Took me a bit to get the motion down and I re-applied sharpy to the bevel several times to check my apexing.

Went through all the grits, but past past 8000 didn't really notice any difference.


Results - mixed. The bevel is nice and shiny, very nice looking actually. It seems like I have a bit more of a defined "secondary bevel" than I started with, but it is definitely convex. I am very happy that the blades appearance was not negatively impacted.

But, the sharpness I achieved was "meh :|". This absolutely has to do with me getting used to the edge-trailing sharpening motion combined with over elevating the blade to match the convex shape. I am sure I went backwards in sharpness a few times. In fact, my first time reaching 4000 grit I stopped and went back to the 2000 grit to start over. It will shave but not pop hairs, and I am used to being able to get almost any steel "hair topping" or at least "hair popping" sharp.

Overall I would say it was a success in that the knife is sharper and still looks good. I will go back and sharpen it at least one more time before I am willing to call it sharp enough to carry.

Thanks for all of the input folks!
 
Next time, try the paper atop the wood only, leaving out the poster board. That'll firm up the backing under the paper, which will help keep the apex that much crisper and sharper. Any 'softness' in the backing substrate will tend to round off the apex at least a little bit, and sharpness will suffer for it.

The softer backing under the paper, like the poster board, helps in shaping the convex behind the edge. But, when working to refine and sharpen the edge itself, the firmest substrate possible under the paper keeps the edge much more crisp.

I was convexing some blades on sandpaper (SiC) for a while. I used a piece of glass or a granite reference plate as the backing. When shaping and polishing the convex behind the edge, I'd put maybe 2 or 3 sheets of plain printer paper underneath the sandpaper. When fine-tuning the edge for sharpness afterward, I'd remove those sheets of paper to firm up the backing. It makes a difference in sharpness.
 
Next time, try the paper atop the wood only, leaving out the poster board. That'll firm up the backing under the paper, which will help keep the apex that much crisper and sharper. Any 'softness' in the backing substrate will tend to round off the apex at least a little bit, and sharpness will suffer for it.

The softer backing under the paper, like the poster board, helps in shaping the convex behind the edge. But, when working to refine and sharpen the edge itself, the firmest substrate possible under the paper keeps the edge much more crisp.

I was convexing some blades on sandpaper (SiC) for a while. I used a piece of glass or a granite reference plate as the backing. When shaping and polishing the convex behind the edge, I'd put maybe 2 or 3 sheets of plain printer paper underneath the sandpaper. When fine-tuning the edge for sharpness afterward, I'd remove those sheets of paper to firm up the backing. It makes a difference in sharpness.
Thanks for the tip - I will try that out :)
 
Just a question. It seems that the methods most are stating indicate a edge-trailing stroke (including the SiC paper and water from Rockstead themselves). Is that the preferred method overall? I am used to an edge leading stroke and DMT diamond stones (with a leather strop finish).
I am very happy that the blades appearance was not negatively impacted.
Overall I would say it was a success in that the knife is sharper and still looks good. I will go back and sharpen it at least one more time before I am willing to call it sharp enough to carry.

Way to go !
I'm glad Obsessed helped you.
I don't sharpen this way (though my Dad did).
I've only polished the sides of knives this way then went to stones for the edge.

Two thoughts :
You could do the final edge on a guided sharpener with abrasive film on the blanks made for the purpose and that way every stroke would be on the edge but not rounding over. Yes edge trailing. Takes a bit of fudging with some thing double back taped to the sides of the knife to make it not rock on the guide's table or clamp.

Secondly, if just hand sharpening as you did with larger sheets of SiC, if one uses a really flat, smooth, water resistant surface the paper can be dampened (and the surface) with a wet and wrung out rag. Then the wet or dry paper will adhere to the surface from capillary action and one can go edge leading (lightly) then edge trailing with more pressure. Takes some trial and error to get the amount of water right. Too much and the paper slips across the surface.

This is how I actually hold my water stones in place but on a hard neoprene rubber mat. Get the water film right and it LOCKS right down like it was in a vice.
 
Way to go !
I'm glad Obsessed helped you.
I don't sharpen this way (though my Dad did).
I've only polished the sides of knives this way then went to stones for the edge.

Two thoughts :
You could do the final edge on a guided sharpener with abrasive film on the blanks made for the purpose and that way every stroke would be on the edge but not rounding over. Yes edge trailing. Takes a bit of fudging with some thing double back taped to the sides of the knife to make it not rock on the guide's table or clamp.

Secondly, if just hand sharpening as you did with larger sheets of SiC, if one uses a really flat, smooth, water resistant surface the paper can be dampened (and the surface) with a wet and wrung out rag. Then the wet or dry paper will adhere to the surface from capillary action and one can go edge leading (lightly) then edge trailing with more pressure. Takes some trial and error to get the amount of water right. Too much and the paper slips across the surface.

This is how I actually hold my water stones in place but on a hard neoprene rubber mat. Get the water film right and it LOCKS right down like it was in a vice.

Do you realize that the knife in question is worth about $1,000, has a *perfect* mirror finish on the bevels, And has a bevel that tapers from heel to tip?

Rocksteads Honzukuri grind can’t be sharpened with a guided system using a fixed angle. It takes a skilled hand that knows how to accommodate the tapered bevel.
 
Do you realize that the knife in question is worth about $1,000, has a *perfect* mirror finish on the bevels, And has a bevel that tapers from heel to tip?

Rocksteads Honzukuri grind can’t be sharpened with a guided system using a fixed angle. It takes a skilled hand that knows how to accommodate the tapered bevel.
You are obviously more experienced with these than I am.

I have a motto : Any thing you buy is basically a blank; take it home and make something useful out of it. If we are doing all this hand work and still not getting optimal sharpness . . .
and since the Edge Pro Apex is capable of what I would call optimal sharpness . . .
(the dudes at the factory may be able to do better but the bottom line is the owner needs to get the thing sharp enough to cut something)
then a little time on the Edge Pro to get it sharp and a little ( lot ) of time fooling around with polishing paper by hand to make it pretty up to the edge.
Sure the very edge won't be all roundy (I've never found that desirable anyway) but it will damb sure be sharp and polished.
As I said put some temporary spacers on the blade so it won't teeter and lets geeter done.

hahahha apparently the factory can't even RESHARPEN it adequately once it is returned so . . .
 
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