Heat treat and tempering 1095?

Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
525
I'm making a 11in long bush knife out 1/8 in thick 1095, and need help on how to heat treat and temper it. I have a propane/mapp torch, and can build a fire, but don't have a forge




Sam
 
Build yourself a nice campfire w/ logs about the thickness you would for a fireplace. Then get the campfire nice a hot, get yourself a nice 1" + Layer of coals on the bottom.
Then place the knife on the coals, attach the knife to a coat hanger so you can pull it out after it heats up. Build a smaller "indian type" structure w/ 1.5"-3" logs/thick branches OVER the knife on the coals. Let it sit for about 15-20 mins. It will get VERY hot. You can actually melt the steel in a simple campfire a/ a good bed of coals, so be careful. The color of the steel turns from light red, to a deep orange, and can go all the way up to a bright yellow. This is what we want to avoid, the bright yellow & a campfire can take 1/8 steel there easily. Just keep your eye on it, and pull it out every 5 mins or so, and check the color of the steel. You want the deep red/just before orangeish color before you quench the blade. Quench the blade in regular vegetable oil. Let the vegetable oil sit next to the fire from beginning to finish, this will heat up the oil so when you stick the red/hot blade in there, it won't stress the steel too much by hitting something cold too quickly. You can get a thermometer & all that to test the temp of the oil, but don't worry about that. Just as long as the vegtable oil is umcomfortable for your finger to stay in for more than 5-10 seconds, then it's warm enough to accept the hot steel for your quench. Pull the knife, AT DESIRED COLOR out of the fire and immediately dunk it in the oil. Make sure you get all the blade part in, I like to leave the handle red hot while the blade sits in the oil and cools immediately. This is a form of differential treating.
You can do it all in a simple campfire & small pot of regular vegetable oil. Pay attention to the colors of the steel as your heating it up & after 20-25 mins quench it.
I like to let my steel bask in the heat for alot longer, this is called soaking the steel, but in a pinch, it isn't vital to making a good blade if you don't know what you're doing.
 
P.S. Just so you know the POWER of a campfire. The temperatures you are seeking & working with, before quench are 1500-1600 degrees for your deep red...just before orangeish color of the steel.
A Good sized campfire you would gather 3-4 friends around can reach 1800-2000 degrees EASY. A Huge Burn the village all the books and all the huts bonfire, can reach temperatures exceeding 2300 degrees. ALL of the intense heat in a campfire is directly in the base, at the coals, about 2-3 inches off the ground, depending how you stack your logs. Get enough wood to burn for 2-3 hours or so, play around with it once you get a good set of coals, and you'll easily be able to get that blade hot enough to quench in oil.
Anymore questions, just ask. I make tons of blades doing this in a pinch & they turn out excellent.
 
Man am I absent minded! When all that's done and the blade has cooled down to where you can touch it w/ your hand, (I let mine hang-cool in the air, dangling from the coathanger). Temper that baby in your regular kitchen oven @ 400 degrees. Give this atleast 2 cycles for temper. Alot/most/some guys temper it 3 times @ same temperature.
The quench gives the steel incredible stiffness/brittleness, the temper gives that steel flexibility & the ability for the atoms to relax so that the steel can take impact. By you stating this was going to be some kind of bush knife, my guess would be some form of chopper in a knife that size, I would definitely temper it 3 times to give it that flexiblity to accept extra impact & not snap the blade!
 
You will do much better using 1080 or 1084. If you were to get lucky, and get 1095 as hard as it should be using the above method, a 400° temper is going to be a tad brittle for a chopping blade.
 
I'm making a 11in long bush knife out 1/8 in thick 1095, and need help on how to heat treat and temper it. I have a propane/mapp torch, and can build a fire, but don't have a forge




Sam

read the stickies, especially 'working with the three steel types" there is good info about heat treating there.

1095 is not the steel you want to be playing with if you do Not have proper heat treating equipment, you need 1070, 1080, 1084.

-Page
 
i don't think he's going to get to a hardening heat in a campfire without forced air there hppy. i suppose with some woods it might happen, but not with anything i burn.
 
what's the benefit of three temper cycles and what's the difference to a single temper being a noob i read these sort of things all the time and i don't know it's done or when it should be done or why it should be done
 
Temper that baby in your regular kitchen oven @ 400 degrees for how long? also which is a better quench for 1095 brine or vegetable oil?


sam
 
Canid, I don't think you've ever done it before. LOL a good campfire can easily warp, melt, heat treat your steel.

Easily, again, a GOOD STRONG CAMPFIRE, the size 3 or 4 of your friends would gather around drinking beer, is the size of fire needed for 1095.

I agree w/ the previous comment that 1084 is alot easier to work with if you're a novice. It definitely is, but this guy stated he had 1095 steel. IMO 1095 is a much higher quality steel, he already has it, I'm just helping him get it treated by NOVICE METHODS.

It's obvious that even some who posted on this are not aware that you can EASILY heat up 1095 for a good quench.

Has anyone ever done this before? I can't be the only one.
 
400 degrees for one hour each cycle. Let the blade cool down completely between each cycle. I like to quench, temper, then I put my finishing final touches on the steel w/ the grinder, or any other clean up work I have to do. Once EVERYTHING is done with the steel I want to to, then I give it it's last temper before I sharpen it.
The differential method I mentioned earlier, gives it a partial temper when you let the handle stay red hot and cool down naturally, while quenching the blade.
 
Completely dried/cured Oak burns excellent temperatures. Sure I wouldn't use any ratty old wood that's been sitting in a pile collecting mold and rotting away the past 20 years.
With that old ratty crappy wood, yes, you will have trouble reaching those temps.

But with good clean, cured Oak, or even fresh cut & fully dried White Pine, you'll hit those temperatures EASY. The original person that posted the inquiry lives in TN. He'll find plenty of good clean wood in TN to work with.

As far as wich oil to use? I use regular vegetable oil. I think depending on your method, desired results, and individual purpose of the blade & individual experience, you can use just about any oil. I've even heard of some guys using motor oil. Of course you can buy the professional grade from Brownells.

I just described the easiest method possible for you to get that blade ready. My goal was to describe a method to heat treat steel, that definitely works well, using very primitive means. You don't need a forge.

As far as the forced air heat thing, sure it works great in a forge. The method I described of placing the steel on TOP of a good thick bed of coals, and THEN building like a tipee/indian style smaller fire w/ smaller branches on top of the steel/coals/ WILL EASILY get that steel yellow hot.

I like to get it past the deep red cherry hot, to make sure it's the heat I desire, and then carefully play with the steel in the coals/fire until it's color dies back down from yellow/orange....to a deep red. You can overheat it and still work with it just fine, just make sure when you QUENCH the steel is at the desired color of deep red.
Red Orange Yellow, that is the progression the blade makes as it gets hotter and you will easily find those colors/temperatures in a good strong campfire w/ clean wood.
 
Temperature control. You have to be careful with the idea that you can overheat the steel and still be fine as long as you're at the right temp at quench. That's not completely true. If you overheat steel past a certain point or for very long, you will have rapid grain growth. Is can only be corrected with a normalizing heat prior to re-heat treating the steel. Large grain size will result in a hard but brittle knife.

Proper heat treating is more than just getting it hot and quenching it.

--nathan
 
I don't think it is PURE hogwash, but I also don't believe he knows how important heat control and a proper quench medium is for 1095, nor what differential heat treating entails. I believe he is also confusing quality with carbon content, which are two different things. As long as the steel was not over heated, his method would work fairly well with a eutectic, or hypoeutectic like the lower carbon 10xx steels. I have had camp fires that would heat steel as he stated. Melt glass to a puddle in just a few minutes.
 
Scs pay no attention to the idea of heat treating 1095 in a campfire. Read the stickies on working with the 3 steel types. if you haven't already started the blade buy some 1084 and work with that

Page
 
Scs pay no attention to the idea of heat treating 1095 in a campfire. Read the stickies on working with the 3 steel types. if you haven't already started the blade buy some 1084 and work with that

Page
 
Scs pay no attention to the idea of heat treating 1095 in a campfire. Read the stickies on working with the 3 steel types. if you haven't already started the blade buy some 1084 and work with that

Page

I quoted Page ,just in case you didn't get the message.
 
Back
Top