Heat treating 80crv2

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Hermanelldena

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Feb 28, 2018
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So I'm working on a 80crv2 puukko knife for my sisters husbands parents. I need to know how to get the best I can out of the steel. I only have a charcoal forge to heat treat it in, and a kitchen oven to temper it. How long should i temper it? And at what temperature?
 
80crv2 is quite a HT forgiving steel. With only charcoal forge you might need to predict the temperature using color chart. This might need some serious substantially practice and experience tho. The rule is always quench in oil unless you want a cracked blade.

PS. This kind of post does belong to Shop Talk.
 
Use the search function in the stickies as well. There are a lot of threads about heat treating 80CrV2 (1080+).
 
According to my notes:

80CRV2: 1500 F, 10 minute soak, quench in fast-to-medium speed oil (McMaster-Carr 9-11 second & canola at 130 F are reasonable), temper ~400 F for 1-2 hours x2 (cool to room temperature between tempers) for HRC 60. Lower temper temperatures will give you higher hardness (350 F would probably be my cutoff).
 
I do 1500F and a 10 minute soak - This gets the alloying into solution.
Quench in fast oil - canola will work for blades that are not too thick or large.
Temper for two hours at 400-425F, cool to room temp, and repeat the temper. - you can cool the blade in running water and stick it right back in the kitchen oven.

There are two issues in doing 80CrV in a charcoal forge. One is temperature control. Use a magnet to determine when the blade becomes non-magnetic. Heat the blade a full shade brighter ( about 75°F hotter) to get to 1500F.
The hold time at 1500F is going to be the most difficult. Your best bet is to try and keep the blade at that temperature for one or two minutes ( It will seem like a very long time while you are doing it). Judging the temperature by eye and using a shortened soak time won't get the full value of 80CrV. You would be far better to use 1075 or 1084. These can be heated to 1475-1550F, held for a short time, and quenched in fast oil or canola - with excellent results.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
You would be far better to use 1075 or 1084. These can be heated to 1475-1550F, held for a short time, and quenched in fast oil or canola - with excellent results.
Click to expand...
Stacy is right - 1075 or 1084 is often passed on because they are such simple steels, but will actually provide a better blade many times than more "fancy" steels if HT'd without good temperature control.
 
Would there be any difference in 80crv and 1084 if both were heat treated the same way in a forge,just brought up to temp and quenched?
Or does the unused alloys in the 80crv detract from the blade in some way or can they only add to the blade although not at the full potential that they could if HT properly in an oven?
 
the small amount of vanadium in 80crv2 (as compared with plain 1080) should really help overall as it helps limit grain growth
https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/zdata-bladesteelC-1080+.htm

it also has a tiny bit of chromium, about a half percent... I expect better results with 80crv2 in general because of these factors over 1080/1084
these articles from @Larrin get into details
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/06/10/how-annealing-of-steel-works/
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/03/19/how-does-grain-refinement-lead-to-improved-properties/
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/02/25/how-fast-do-you-have-to-quench-hardenability-of-steel/
 
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AKS’ site has this for HT: (link posted above)

Austenitize: Heat to 1545°-1615° and hold for 5 minutes. Quench in oil.
Temper: Temper twice for two hours each time. Use the table below to achieve desired hardness. (On site)
​
I found a few threads on here that corroborated so I used this process this afternoon, and unfortunately my blades failed a file test post temper.

I was using a two-brick forge, heated the blades to non-magnetic (tested both), soaked for at least 5min. (Used a timer, though the blades may have been up to temp before the timer was started), quenched in heated canola oil (quench tank was 2ft from forge, oil was heated by scrap metal pieces being heated and placed inside before heating the work pieces, unsure of the exact temp of the oil but I measured it at around 140f just before quench), wiped down with paper towel and placed in 400f oven - twice for two hours with a cold water rinse after each temper.

The blades are 5-6” x ~1” x 1/8”

Any suggestions as to what went wrong?
 
dirc said:
the small amount of vanadium in 80crv2 (as compared with plain 1080) should really help overall as it helps limit grain growth
https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/zdata-bladesteelC-1080+.htm

it also has a tiny bit of chromium, about a half percent... I expect better results with 80crv2 in general because of these factors over 1080/1084
these articles from @Larrin get into details
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/06/10/how-annealing-of-steel-works/
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/03/19/how-does-grain-refinement-lead-to-improved-properties/
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/02/25/how-fast-do-you-have-to-quench-hardenability-of-steel/
Click to expand...
I meant more when those alloys aren't used to their full potential as in 80crv brought to temp and quenched.no holding at temp to bring most of those alloys into solution
If they aren't brought into solution just prior to quenching do they have any effect on the finished blade good or bad?
 
KillerGriller said:
AKS’ site has this for HT: (link posted above)

Austenitize: Heat to 1545°-1615° and hold for 5 minutes. Quench in oil.
Temper: Temper twice for two hours each time. Use the table below to achieve desired hardness. (On site)
​
I found a few threads on here that corroborated so I used this process this afternoon, and unfortunately my blades failed a file test post temper.

I was using a two-brick forge, heated the blades to non-magnetic (tested both), soaked for at least 5min. (Used a timer, though the blades may have been up to temp before the timer was started), quenched in heated canola oil (quench tank was 2ft from forge, oil was heated by scrap metal pieces being heated and placed inside before heating the work pieces, unsure of the exact temp of the oil but I measured it at around 140f just before quench), wiped down with paper towel and placed in 400f oven - twice for two hours with a cold water rinse after each temper.

The blades are 5-6” x ~1” x 1/8”

Any suggestions as to what went wrong?
Click to expand...

Have you tried grinding off the decarb and then doing a file test?
I tried 80crv2 for the first time recently, also in a 2 brick forge, and it was the first steel i've had that failed a file test post ht until i did some light grinding.
 
If you got your 80crv2 from NJSB is has to be normalized before you can get a good ht. I find it a pain in the rear for stock removal blades. I prefer 15n20 for a simple heat treat but 1084 is good too. 1075 is often recommended for beginners but the stuff from NJSB gives great hamons but you may need something faster than canola oil to quench it so it can be tricky as well.
 
S Storm W - This is from knifemaker.ca, it's annealed and ready to go upon arrival...so I'm told?

Here's the post temper
48080984471_3305e1c758_z.jpg


Here's after running a file over them a few times, the spine detail didn't come through but it's notched pretty thoroughly.
48080983606_c2b4b0c6d9_z.jpg


I also quickly ran one on the grinder on a 320 belt, past the decarb grind marks were visible.
 
KillerGriller said:
S Storm W - This is from knifemaker.ca, it's annealed and ready to go upon arrival...so I'm told?

Here's the post temper
48080984471_3305e1c758_z.jpg


Here's after running a file over them a few times, the spine detail didn't come through but it's notched pretty thoroughly.
48080983606_c2b4b0c6d9_z.jpg


I also quickly ran one on the grinder on a 320 belt, past the decarb grind marks were visible.
Click to expand...
If it doesn't seem like its hardening well you may want to contact them and ask them if it is in a condition to be hardened. I didn't know where they get their steel. Some mills leave the steel in a condition that is good for machining but needs extra steps to harden. If you forge you need to go through those steps anyway so it's no big deal. It sucks for stock removal. Unless you have a bunch of steel I would just get one of the 2 I mentioned. You can still use up your stock later and you have something to compare it to. 80crv2 seems to be a love or hate steel and I don't know why. 1084 is recommend as a beginner steel and a lot of people really live it. It gets sharp super easy. I like the 15n20 because I have never had a bad experience with it and I make a lot of kitchen knives and it resist rust a little bit. Not a lot but enough that most people have no problem getting it to a nice patina. It also can be ran very hard and take a thin edge. For outdoor use the only difference will be that tiny rust resistance.
 
The AKS heat treat is the "industrial" heat treat, not the "knife maker" heat treat. Try the one I specified above and you will be pleasantly surprised. As noted above, the steel may need normalization (heat to 1650-1700 F and air cool) followed by grain refinement (1550 F air cool, 1475 F air cool, 1450 F air cool) prior to heat treatment to get the most out of it.
 
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