Heat Treatment - Crystal Weaving Foundation

I have a number of Luong's knives, and they are all excellent performers -- both in terms of geometry and heat treat. And Luong's character is second to none.

It would be unusual for a top-tier knife maker to reveal the recipe for his/her heat treat. Try calling Peter's and ask them to heat treat your blank to the Delta 3V protocol. You won't get far.

In one of Ed Fowler's books (Knife Talk, 1998), he explained in detail a long (several days) and extremely elaborate, multi-cycle heat treat for 52100. He ended up with a 300 percent improvement in cutting performance.

He was able to bend the blade back and forth (a full 180 degrees) 6.5 times before the edge cracked.

He took the steel to a metallurgist (Sam DiGiallonardo, owner of Metallographic Laboratory Services) for analysis. The grain size was extremely fine, the finest Sam had ever seen. There was no retained austenite in the matrix and only low levels of bainite. The edge was 58 Rc, and the spine was 30 Rc.

The analysis revealed ferrite with carbides in the transition zone between the edge and the spine. It was a thing of metallurgical beauty.

The carbide size was 0.5 to 1 microns. (Carbides in D2 are typically 10-15 microns, often more.) Ed said: "... an edge of ultra-fine crystals can outcut a harder edge of larger crystal size and still remain tougher, as well as being easier to sharpen."

The point is that the performance of knife steels can be greatly improved over standard heat treats by using long, elaborate and expert heat treats. The average knife blade leaves a lot of performance in the oven, for practical and monetary reasons.

I truly appreciate the work that Larrin does with standard steels. His work is awesome, and we're all better for it.

And I especially appreciate Luong for his extraordinary work in taking steels well beyond their standard performance. His work is brilliant. He shares it with us; and we're all better for it, too.
 
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T Twindog , Thanks! Your openminded :thumbsup:

Early knife making journey, I enjoyed working with 52100. Well, not so much today however still do some - I just finished oil handle of a 52100 chopper ht 5J. Keep in mind about my comments - I am just being critical, not intent to contradict your points.

btw - before this post, I did read & watched(to refresh memory) a few things about Ed's HT & stories.

In one of Ed Fowler's books (Knife Talk, 1998), he explained in detail a long (several days) and extremely elaborate, multi-cycle heat treat for 52100. He ended up with a 300 percent improvement in cutting performance."
What is control/baseline spec, since 300% is a relative value?

He was able to bend the blade back and forth (a full 180 degrees) 6.5 times before the edge cracked.
Removed upper 2/3 of ffg blade, just bend gradient hardening(40-58) lower 1/3 at much thinner cross section to +90/-90* @5" length for 6.5 times seem normal/average at this geometry.

He took the steel to a metallurgist (Sam DiGiallonardo, owner of Metallographic Laboratory Services) for analysis. The grain size was extremely fine, the finest Sam had ever seen.
Grain size 14+ (below 2.8um diameter) is very fine - relative to conventional/common ht protocol. btw - theoretical limit always been around 1um where recalescence heat & pearlite grain nucleation issues merge(enlarge) prior aust grain. Heheh, my super quench mitigates/solves these issues but quench timing is super sensitive/tricky.
There was no retained austenite in the matrix and only low levels of bainite. The edge was 58 Rc, and the spine was 30 Rc.

The analysis revealed ferrite with carbides in the transition zone between the edge and the spine. It was a thing of metallurgical beauty.

The carbide size was 0.5 to 1 microns. (Carbides in D2 are typically 10-15 microns, often more.) Ed said: "... an edge of ultra-fine crystals can outcut a harder edge of larger crystal size and still remain tougher, as well as being easier to sharpen."
52100 normal average carbide size is around 250-300nm. Where 500-1000+nm carbides are most likely being remnant and or precipitated of upper & mid bainitic carbides (rod/finger shape). Larger carbide/cementite would increase edge retention (for most tasks) but given up some impact toughness.

Ed's HT process & perspective are interesting
https://www.edfowler.com/index.php/...arted forging blades,lower third of the blade.

_______X_______

BCMW HT 5x is continuous for 30-60hrs utilized 2 ht and 1 toaster ovens, optional LN2.

My Modus Operandi: http://www.freethinksee.com/
 
BluntCut MetalWorks BluntCut MetalWorks - thank you for sharing your details...

for a process that long (I really did read your initial ht #1 protocol which you shared) - we all figured it was a bainite forming very slow approach and I'm guessing HT5x is a refinement on your original.

thank you for continuing to share - but please please consider sending a small blade with HT5x to @Larrin for some tests & microscopic imaging - it would be really interesting for us to see : )

... it might even lead to more sales : D
 
So one guy discovered in his garage what the NASA, MIT and others never thought about !
I for one would like to see more proof
NASA , MIT and others...............it never occurred to them that they could use a pencil in space, so they spent millions to make a ballpoint pen which would be usable in space . I’m not sure they finally managed to make it :p Sorry for off topic , I couldn't resist :)
 
NASA , MIT and others...............it never occurred to them that they could use a pencil in space, so they spent millions to make a ballpoint pen which would be usable in space . I’m not sure they finally managed to make it :p Sorry for off topic , I couldn't resist :)

Because using pencils caused a lot of serious problems with their equipment.

Actually, Paul C. Fisher bore the costs for developing the first Space Pen (the AG-7 AntiGravity Pen). It was NOT "NASA, MIT, others..........." Zeunerite is correct regarding problems with pencils in space (graphite dust floating around, broken pencil lead, etc.). The Fisher Space Pen was/is quite a revolutionary piece of kit !!

Sorry ..., dislike reading parroted disinformation, especially when design/developmental/production credit is misgiven.
 
5mm thick Niolox, 18dps, 0.022" behind edge thickness
62rc @ HT 5 tf6|25
Chop misc hardwoods
Tap Chop dried cow femur bone
Hammer tip through thin steel bracket
Baton & pry 2x4 with tip
Chop 16D nail


Closeup of edge after chopped bone+nail
Rp3Sbeg.jpg


5mm thick Elmax, 18dps, 0.023" behind edge thickness
61rc @ HT 5 tf6|25
Chop misc hardwoods [2x4, eucalyptus, argentine lignum vitae]
Tap Chop dried cow femur bone
Baton 16D nail


Closeup of edge after cut nail
d7SI4xh.jpg
 
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Hammer-baton-cut annealed 60D nail performance
Steels: 1095, 3V, 26C3, Aebl, CPM154, Elmax, 2 Magnacut, Niolox, N690, S30V, S45VN, Vanadis4E,Z-wear
Sharpened with edgepro @18dps 600 grit diamond plate

Closeup of Edges after
Dlvb6f6.jpg


 
Tip punches and edge cut mild steel bracket

HT 5 TF 5,25 | 0,50
CPM Magnacut 4.24mm thick, 63.5rc
Sharpened with Edgepro 20 dps 600 grit diamond plate

BVNWHVt.jpg


*warning: wind noise*
 
CPM M4 65rc, sharpened with edgepro at 15dps, ~0.006" BET

Testing edge stability by whittling pork rib bone and nail.

WATNjwt.jpg


3minutes video.

 
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Z-Max 69rc, 18dps

Testing edge stability - in context of amount of damage (less is better of course) - by whittling pork rib bone and nail

pqWljf8.jpg



edit: Upcoming ht
x0ypgwE.jpg
 
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Test edge stability with cutting 1/2" diameter sisal rope using bone as backing.
S90V 66rc - HT 5 TF7,15,22.5|5,15,20|2,15,14|0,25
Sharpened with edgepro: 12dps, ~0.005" behind edge thickness

5 minutes video

Edge Closeup:
6WtWX0z.jpg
 
So after all of your efforts, what steel/heat treatment in your experience is the most durable in this kind of test?
 
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