Help me understand AEB-L steel

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ProudGrognard

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Dear forumites,

I am considering having a custom knife made, and I am considering AEB-L steel. I would like however your help to understand what is going on.

As far as I can tell, AEB-L is stainless, initially a razor steel, which can be very tough, can be sharpened easily and can hold a moderate edge especially when just treated to high hardness. I am confused, because it is described as 'stainless 52100' and yet people recommend using it for folders. Wouldn 't a biggish fixed blade be a good idea of the steel? I mean, 52100 is what machetes and kukris are made of.

What don't I understand? Would am AEB-L be good for an 4 inch blade knife, to be used as an EDC alongside a SAK?
 
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ProudGrognard said:
As far as I can tell, AEB-L is stainless, initially a razor steel, which can be very tough, can be sharpened easily and can hold a moderate edge especially when just treated to high hardness. I am confused, because it is described as 'stainless 52100' and yet people recommend using it for folders. Wouldn 't a biggish fixed blade be a good idea of the steel? I mean, 52100 is what machetes and kukris are made of.
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You basically have a good understanding of AEB-L. However, AEB-L doesn't typically have the required toughness that you may want in a larger hard-use knife. Compared to 52100 (and 5160, and other typical "big knife/choppers at optimum HRC), AEB-L has a "grainier" microstructure with larger carbides, which would make it more prone to chipping and edge deformation in chores typically done with a larger knife (ie, chopping).

AEB-L is perfect for a smaller knife - fixed or folder - that wouldn't see any chopping or extreme lateral forces on the knife's edge.
 
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IMO, AEB-L is a very versatile steel, it has good toughness, good rust resistance, average abrasion resistance, and can be heat treat to a wide range of hardness.

If you're doing a big chopper, then you could ht it to 58-59 hrc and get crazy tough.
I'd have to disagree with shane45-1911 shane45-1911 , AEB-L has small carbides and is very tough, it's not prone to chipping.

If you're doing a small edc knife, you could ht it to 62-63 hrc and get decent edge retention.
 
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Your understanding of the steel is correct. Basically AEB-L (or NitroV) at ca. 60 HRC can give you excellent toughness, sharpen-ability, and corrosion resistance. You pay with less wear resistance compared to large carbide steels like - say - S90V, 20CV, etc.

Small Folder or large fixed blade, the toughness comes in handy if you don’t like chipped edges.
 
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PMQ said:
I'd have to disagree with shane45-1911 shane45-1911 , AEB-L has small carbides and is very tough, it's not prone to chipping.
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My apologies - sort of. :)

I was thinking of AEB, (not AEB-L). However, my experiences have shown that varying HRC has a profound difference in the carbide size in AEB-L. If the heat treatment is not optimal for the task at hand, AEB-L is not necessarily that tough.

AEB-L has a narrower margin of error in HRC for good performance, compared to other "big knife" steels (1095, 52100, 5160, etc.) that have a larger hardness window when it comes to still performing decently.
 
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ProudGrognard said:
Dear forumites,

I am considering having a custom knife made, and I am considering AEB-L steel. I would like however your help to understand what is going on.

As far as I can tell, AEB-L is stainless, initially a razor steel, which can be very tough, can be sharpened easily and can hold a moderate edge especially when just treated to high hardness. I am confused, because it is described as 'stainless 52100' and yet people recommend using it for folders. Wouldn 't a biggish fixed blade be a good idea of the steel? I mean, 52100 is what machetes and kukris are made of.

What don't I understand? Would am AEB-L be good for an 4 inch blade knife, to be used as an EDC alongside a SAK?
Click to expand...
Would it be good for an edc?
Sure, why not.....

It's great for big, tough knives. Those that would be used and abused.

It might not hold an edge as long as other steels, but it should sharpen faster.

So, it depends on what you want?

I believe Handles and sheaths, how you carry..... Is More important than steel type.
 
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AEB-L is great for blades both large and small. I have a Jesse Jarosz machete and a Spyderco Urban both in AEB-L and they perform great.

Toughness is not just important in a large knife used for chopping. On a folder with a nice thin edge (which is a prerequisite to good cutting performance), you need toughness to prevent chipping. You also need hardness to prevent rolling.
 
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David Mary David Mary and I have used AEB-L extensively in our knives and I personally feel it's one of the most versatile steels out there at a good price point. It's toughness is very good, it's edge retention is mediocre but it rewards you with being very easy to sharpen and has great edge stability. The latter is why it's used for razors but it's also why it works well as a hard use steel when heat treated for it.

I like 58 HRC for hard use as the 54 hardness machetes, while nearly unbreakable, dent far too easy for my liking, like trimming up dry wood that's hanging from vines from a blowover on a trail.

At high hardness, 61-64, AEB-L holds an edge respectably for a small EDC knife and retains a decent amount of toughness.

The most extreme example I have is a machete, David's barong seax/barax which is 1/8" stock, 16" long, and he ground it for slicing green wood. We had some bad storms a few years ago that knocked down hundreds of trees along the mountain bike trails I help maintain and the AEB-L got a lot of work knocking out vines and trees. It far outperformed the tram latin machete as I didn't have to resharpen every hour or so. I know I shared some pics of this with David at some point, I'll post then up of I can find it.

At 61 hardness, AEB-L is still pretty hard to damage. One customer told me he was "practicing" with his sitrep and caught hold of door hinge or latch pretty good and the edge was fine. Not quite as sharp but no damage.

So, 58 hardness AEB-L makes a wicked hard use blade and 63 hardness is a great EDC blade. Of course, this assume the design is good too as we can't ignore grind angles and all that either.
 
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Crag the Brewer said:
Would it be good for an edc?
Sure, why not.....

It's great for big, tough knives. Those that would be used and abused.

It might not hold an edge as long as other steels, but it should sharpen faster.

So, it depends on what you want?

I believe Handles and sheaths, how you carry..... Is More important than steel type.
Click to expand...
I could not have said it better!
 
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Heard someone call it "stainless carbon steel" to put it some kind of way, it's of course more complicated than that, originally designed as a razor steel
 
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shane45-1911 said:
My apologies - sort of. :)

I was thinking of AEB, (not AEB-L). However, my experiences have shown that varying HRC has a profound difference in the carbide size in AEB-L. If the heat treatment is not optimal for the task at hand, AEB-L is not necessarily that tough.

AEB-L has a narrower margin of error in HRC for good performance, compared to other "big knife" steels (1095, 52100, 5160, etc.) that have a larger hardness window when it comes to still performing decently.
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I'll take your word for the variable toughness of AEB-L. I haven't heard of too many (any) bad examples. The heat treat would have to be totally botched to have worse toughness than 1095 in a "big knife" considering the geometry of the knives you are talking about.
 
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chalby said:
I'll take your word for the variable toughness of AEB-L. I haven't heard of too many (any) bad examples. The heat treat would have to be totally botched to have worse toughness than 1095 in a "big knife" considering the geometry of the knives you are talking about.
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Re-read Bikerector's post above. In my experiences, AEB-L's properties change pretty significantly depending upon its HRC, although he doesn't go into a lot of detail.

Don't get me wrong, I love AEB-L, but it is not a "one size fits all" when it comes to heat treatment. Most simple carbon steels are more stable across a variable range of HRC.
 
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shane45-1911 said:
Re-read Bikerector's post above. In my experiences, AEB-L's properties change pretty significantly depending upon its HRC, although he doesn't go into a lot of detail.

Don't get me wrong, I love AEB-L, but it is not a "one size fits all" when it comes to heat treatment. Most simple carbon steels are less forgiving across a variable range of HRC.
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You could say the same for 1095 as well though. It's got OK toughness in the mid to high 50's HRC and it's got pretty good edge retention once you go up to over 60 but pretty poor toughness.

AEB-L at 63-64 HRC has better toughness than 1095 at 60-62 HRC.

1084 or 1075 are much better choices for knives/machetes that are primarily choppers. It's the geometry that gives those knives in 1095 it's strength.
 
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chalby said:
You could say the same for 1095 as well though. It's got OK toughness in the mid to high 50's HRC and it's got pretty good edge retention once you go up to over 60 but pretty poor toughness.

AEB-L at 63-64 HRC has better toughness than 1095 at 60-62 HRC.

1084 or 1075 are much better choices for knives/machetes that are primarily choppers. It's the geometry that gives those knives in 1095 it's strength.
Click to expand...

I am not directly comparing AEB-L to any other steel, or talking about edge geometry. I am saying that the attributes of AEB-L can change pretty significantly at low vs. high hardness.
 
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shane45-1911 said:
Re-read Bikerector's post above. In my experiences, AEB-L's properties change pretty significantly depending upon its HRC, although he doesn't go into a lot of detail.

Don't get me wrong, I love AEB-L, but it is not a "one size fits all" when it comes to heat treatment. Most simple carbon steels are more stable across a variable range of HRC.
Click to expand...
Everything he said would also apply to the effects of hardness with carbon steels.
 
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