Help please! Miyabi and customs and other brands to build set.

[Alford78]

Well since I started collecting knives my wife has also enjoyed the hunt for some of them and has agreed that we need a good set in the kitchen plus steak knives.

Since I'm new to steel blades in general we need some help. We don't care if the set is matching so customs are an option and we both like Miyabi 5000mcd and 7000mcd for the chef knives and a santoku for sure and maybe even a paring and bread knive too. But I don't know if going with the 7000mcd is worth it in terms of use since the 5000mcd would likely be less prone to chipping; although, I've read the 7000mcd knives only truly micro chip. Can anyone say wether or not they would be hesitant to purchase the harder steel 7000mcd since the 5000mcd is a great mixture of steel and hardness?

Next is what steels and grinds from custom makers would compare to these higher end Miyabi models? I've noticed completely different steels in the kitchen knives custom section than what is typically seen with folders and have no idea how they compare.

Another thing is steak knives and serrations. I've seen them in both forms and have only owned the traditional serrated steak knives but wouldn't be against purchasing another grind. Any reason to stray away from serrated steak knives other than the ease of sharpening a plain grind?

Last and definately not least is a display block or counter stand etc... If we mix and match different makers what would be the best way to match the display to random knives? Are there block makers out there that do this or should we just try to match the knives to a display that we like (which seems backwards to me since will use the knives daily so are much more important).

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[worshipNtribute]

I recently just upgraded all of my kitchenware to all clad and am in the process of replacing / buying new kitchen stuff so heres what I'd recommend from my own experience:

I'd recommend magnetic knife stands (I use some powerful rare earth magnets with some electric tape over them to not scratch the knives). A small 1 inch magnet can easily hold up a knife. I use this because I don't have much area to work with so putting the magnets anywhere is a convenience for me. Ikea also has some decent bars (12" bar) that you can just wrap with wood/vinyl cover to match your kitchen. As for the knives you're looking at, miyabi is okay but not really top of the line. They're a household name similar to shun or global, and they're decent, but there are certainly better knives out there for the money. Although steel is important, the heat treatment and the way the knife is ground is also equally important. If it was me building up my kitchen from scratch... I'd get a good qyuto, a petty knife, a paring knife, a nice end grain cutting board, a plastic oxo cutting board, a 1000k and a 5000k waterstone, and you'd be set for almost anything.

Gyuto Recommendation:
Konosuke HD 240mm. This is a semi stainless steel so its not as worrisome as high carbon steels with patina and it cuts like a dream. It's a laser so you can't be slamming it around or you'll damage the edge, but you can cut most things with it. This is a pricy option at around $250 but this is your knife that you will be using 75% of the time, atleast, so why not spend a bit and get a great knife.

Petty/Paring knife:
Get whichever one you like the shape/feel of. There are plenty of options here. Great steels - AEB-L/SG2/Ginsan/Aogami Super. I personally use a henckels 6" utility knife. It's a bit softer / thicker edge so I can literally thrust it into anything without worry for chipping the knife. It debones chickens, cuts cores, etc, etc without a worry. The paring knife is mainly for small, small tasks, but it's helpful to have sitting around. I use it all the time for miscellaneous tasks (open a package, lift open a can lid, etc).

Cutting board:
End grain maple is generally recommended. I have a 16x16 block end grain which is perfect for me (I got it at TJ maxx for $30 bucks). Some people like larger, but I like to be able to move it to the sink / stove to drop ingredients in. Mines about 1.5" thick, which I feel like is a happy medium. A lot of people recommend at least 2" thick but that makes it a bit heavier. Once you scratch it up with cutting, just sand it down a little bit and add some oil for maintenance and it'll be like new. Some boards can run upwards of $100 bucks but it'll help maintain your knife edge and these last just as long as your knife. Avoid bamboo boards.
I'd also have a plastic board (oxo on amazon is 15 bucks and pretty nice for the money) just for meats / ease of cleaning / small tasks.

Waterstones:
You have plenty of options here. Having a nice knife is wonderful but its not worth it unless you can keep the edge sharp. I'd learn how to use waterstones. They're much easier than I thought to pick up (I learned using a stack of quarters to make sure I was maintaining the same angle every time) and last quite a while. You can go super expensive or pretty cheap here. I started on a king 1000 and stropped with a magazine cover and I could put a pretty good edge on my knives (shaving but not hair splitting) with a total cost of 13 dollars (amazon prime). You really only need a 1000k stone, but if you've got a bit extra money, get a 5000k stone to finish and maybe even a balsa wood strop. Some people use lower grits to put a new edge on, but since you're getting new knives, I'd say just start with a 1000. It's more than enough to keep your knives sharp for a while.
King 1000 is probably the cheapest 'good' option , but a worthwhile upgrade is a bester 1000 and a suehiro rika 5k. They're about $50 each, but sharpen quicker, have better feedback, and will 'crater' less. You can flatten them with anything from drywall screen to a flat sidewalk.


Good forums: kitchen knife forums, chef talk, and maybe chefknivestogo (take stuff from here with a grain of salt, they are also a company trying to make a profit so 'honest' negative reviews are rare).

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[Alford78]

I recently just upgraded all of my kitchenware to all clad and am in the process of replacing / buying new kitchen stuff so heres what I'd recommend from my own experience:

I'd recommend magnetic knife stands (I use some powerful rare earth magnets with some electric tape over them to not scratch the knives). A small 1 inch magnet can easily hold up a knife. I use this because I don't have much area to work with so putting the magnets anywhere is a convenience for me. Ikea also has some decent bars (12" bar) that you can just wrap with wood/vinyl cover to match your kitchen. As for the knives you're looking at, miyabi is okay but not really top of the line. They're a household name similar to shun or global, and they're decent, but there are certainly better knives out there for the money. Although steel is important, the heat treatment and the way the knife is ground is also equally important. If it was me building up my kitchen from scratch... I'd get a good qyuto, a petty knife, a paring knife, a nice end grain cutting board, a plastic oxo cutting board, a 1000k and a 5000k waterstone, and you'd be set for almost anything.

Gyuto Recommendation:
Konosuke HD 240mm. This is a semi stainless steel so its not as worrisome as high carbon steels with patina and it cuts like a dream. It's a laser so you can't be slamming it around or you'll damage the edge, but you can cut most things with it. This is a pricy option at around $250 but this is your knife that you will be using 75% of the time, atleast, so why not spend a bit and get a great knife.

Petty/Paring knife:
Get whichever one you like the shape/feel of. There are plenty of options here. Great steels - AEB-L/SG2/Ginsan/Aogami Super. I personally use a henckels 6" utility knife. It's a bit softer / thicker edge so I can literally thrust it into anything without worry for chipping the knife. It debones chickens, cuts cores, etc, etc without a worry. The paring knife is mainly for small, small tasks, but it's helpful to have sitting around. I use it all the time for miscellaneous tasks (open a package, lift open a can lid, etc).

Cutting board:
End grain maple is generally recommended. I have a 16x16 block end grain which is perfect for me (I got it at TJ maxx for $30 bucks). Some people like larger, but I like to be able to move it to the sink / stove to drop ingredients in. Mines about 1.5" thick, which I feel like is a happy medium. A lot of people recommend at least 2" thick but that makes it a bit heavier. Once you scratch it up with cutting, just sand it down a little bit and add some oil for maintenance and it'll be like new. Some boards can run upwards of $100 bucks but it'll help maintain your knife edge and these last just as long as your knife. Avoid bamboo boards.
I'd also have a plastic board (oxo on amazon is 15 bucks and pretty nice for the money) just for meats / ease of cleaning / small tasks.

Waterstones:
You have plenty of options here. Having a nice knife is wonderful but its not worth it unless you can keep the edge sharp. I'd learn how to use waterstones. They're much easier than I thought to pick up (I learned using a stack of quarters to make sure I was maintaining the same angle every time) and last quite a while. You can go super expensive or pretty cheap here. I started on a king 1000 and stropped with a magazine cover and I could put a pretty good edge on my knives (shaving but not hair splitting) with a total cost of 13 dollars (amazon prime). You really only need a 1000k stone, but if you've got a bit extra money, get a 5000k stone to finish and maybe even a balsa wood strop. Some people use lower grits to put a new edge on, but since you're getting new knives, I'd say just start with a 1000. It's more than enough to keep your knives sharp for a while.
King 1000 is probably the cheapest 'good' option , but a worthwhile upgrade is a bester 1000 and a suehiro rika 5k. They're about $50 each, but sharpen quicker, have better feedback, and will 'crater' less. You can flatten them with anything from drywall screen to a flat sidewalk.


Good forums: kitchen knife forums, chef talk, and maybe chefknivestogo (take stuff from here with a grain of salt, they are also a company trying to make a profit so 'honest' negative reviews are rare).

Hope this helps and good luck!

I've been looking at the Konosuke models and shied away from them since mostly saw carbon models. I'll look more at their other models.

 

[worshipNtribute]

I've been looking at the Konosuke models and shied away from them since mostly saw carbon models. I'll look more at their other models.

They have a HH stainless steel and an HD semi stainless gyuto. The HD is a slightly better in all aspects but it will develop a light patina if you don't wipe it down after acidic foods. It's relatively trouble free though. Ive been searching for one with ebony handles (240mm) for a while now, but the ho wood is in stock at a few retailers. Good luck!

 

[Alford78]

They have a HH stainless steel and an HD semi stainless gyuto. The HD is a slightly better in all aspects but it will develop a light patina if you don't wipe it down after acidic foods. It's relatively trouble free though. Ive been searching for one with ebony handles (240mm) for a while now, but the ho wood is in stock at a few retailers. Good luck!

Forgive me for my newbness but what makes the HD better than the Miyabi 5000mcd knife. We will be using these 4-5 nights per week so sharpening could play a role in my decision. I'm not preferring one over the other but am pretty much stuck on these two for now. The fit and finish is winning for the Miyabi but that is it as far as I can see.

 

[Alford78]

They have a HH stainless steel and an HD semi stainless gyuto. The HD is a slightly better in all aspects but it will develop a light patina if you don't wipe it down after acidic foods. It's relatively trouble free though. Ive been searching for one with ebony handles (240mm) for a while now, but the ho wood is in stock at a few retailers. Good luck!

Ok. Think between the wife and I we can have an idea of what we prefer once they get here. She likes the looks of the 5000mcd model blades and handles over the plain Konosuke HD2 models. So we ordered her the Miyabi 5000mcd 180mm Santoku and I ordered the Konosuke 270mm HD2 Gyuto (she wanted the 240 since has really really small hands but maybe that was a purposeful tactic on my part for a future 240 to make her happy ;-) ). I'm sure with these being our first set of quality kitchen knives we will not be disappointed in either of them.

I was very tempted to purchase a Suisun Inox Honyaki Gyuto 240mm but decided not to over do it since as of now she's on board with these nicer knives. Would we have noticed a difference in cutting ability alone with the Suisun over the Konosuke HD2?

Will take your advice and find some stones and cutting surfaces as we need to throw out the hard plastic ones for sure as they are constantly keeping me busy sharpening. We only have one small proper cutting block but it will do until find a larger one.

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it!

 

[worshipNtribute]

Suisin knives are certainly pretty sweet. I don't know if you'll be able to tell a very noticeable difference in the cutting ability between the kono and the suisin to be honest. They are different knives, but they are both great options and I don't think you can go wrong either either. The kono is about $100 bucks cheaper which is why I recommended it, and the HD steel they use is pretty care free (wipe the blade down, but you don't need to be religious about it) so its a great knife. Most people have nothing but positive things to say about either though.


Awesome choices on the knives! You should update this thread when they come in with your opinions, it'd be nice to hear a comparison as they're both pretty great knives!

 

[mrmnms]

I would suggest you give a lot of thought as to how you're going to maintain the knives. There is a learning curve to sharpening. Few things more frustrating than excellent but less than sharp knives. That 270 will be begging for a nice big end grain board. That's a lot of knife for a home user.

 

[Alford78]

I would suggest you give a lot of thought as to how you're going to maintain the knives. There is a learning curve to sharpening. Few things more frustrating than excellent but less than sharp knives. That 270 will be begging for a nice big end grain board. That's a lot of knife for a home user.

We've ordered a 21"x17" end grain board but have a feeling it will be upgraded but will make do until find another one. We are actually going with end grain countertops soon and will have a massive block on an island that will give some contrast to the actual counter pattern for a fine look. I've worked in a kitchen before (a few different ones when was a student) and have hand sharpened but wouldn't consider myself a pro by any means. But I am at least comfortable sharpening and handling larger knives. I still haven't bought stones but think will go with a beston 500, bester 1000 and a suehiro 5000. The plan is to sharpen some of our other knives way when the time comes where a strop won't work I'll be confident.

 

[Alford78]

I would suggest you give a lot of thought as to how you're going to maintain the knives. There is a learning curve to sharpening. Few things more frustrating than excellent but less than sharp knives. That 270 will be begging for a nice big end grain board. That's a lot of knife for a home user.

Gotta respond twice since just opened the 270. Wow! Yes it's just a bit larger than what I was imagining but shouldn't be too much of a learning curve stepping up 2.5" (LOL that doesn't sound like much but oh how it actually is once in hand) from my older generic chef knives. It really dwarfs them.

I'm impressed with the knife in general but the bevel at the tip is shaped a little different than the rest of the blade. I'm guessing this is common and really not worth mentioning other than it caught me off guard. I'll snap a pic if possibe but dont have anything for macro shots. Need to invest in a lens.

Waiting on the Miyabi to arrive as it is showing out for delivery. Am a little anxious and hoping not gonna be let down since the Kono set the bar kinda high for first quality kitchen knife.

 

[mrmnms]

We've ordered a 21"x17" end grain board but have a feeling it will be upgraded but will make do until find another one. We are actually going with end grain countertops soon and will have a massive block on an island that will give some contrast to the actual counter pattern for a fine look. I've worked in a kitchen before (a few different ones when was a student) and have hand sharpened but wouldn't consider myself a pro by any means. But I am at least comfortable sharpening and handling larger knives. I still haven't bought stones but think will go with a beston 500, bester 1000 and a suehiro 5000. The plan is to sharpen some of our other knives way when the time comes where a strop won't work I'll be confident.

Good plan. That's a good stone set. You won't need the 500 often if you keep them relatively sharp. Just for thinning and maybe dealing with some little chips. My countertops are edge grain Vermont Maple. Although I have and love my end grain boards, I often use sort of thin plastic mats on the counter tops to cut on. Easy to transport for, easy to wash . I toss them every month or 2, depending on their shape. You can see where guests thought my counter top was a cutting board. After 20 years, not so pretty.

 

[Alford78]

Well a little update.

When I opened the 5000mcd I wasn't the least bit impressed after opening the Konosuke a few hours prior. It just didn't give me the wow factor like the super thin edge of the lazer. The Miyabi FnF was great and the knife had good balance considering it's heavier feeling than the Kono HD2 270mm. But, once we broke them out and cut mushrooms, potatoes, squash, and onion we both preferred the Miyabi. It is totally different and quite a bit shorter but the actual cutting performance was close to equal. The Kono lazer goes through food easier but has a bit of stick where the Miyabi doesn't stick.

Both are quite an upgrade over our random gnisu and hand me down knives we've collected over the years. The Kono can saw through a tomato without holding the tomato (haven't tried the Miyabi) and the lack of food stick of the Miyabi is making it the favorite so far. Once we get used to the larger blade it could have its purposes where it gets used over the shorter Miyabi for sure.

 

[Alford78]

Good plan. That's a good stone set. You won't need the 500 often if you keep them relatively sharp. Just for thinning and maybe dealing with some little chips. My countertops are edge grain Vermont Maple. Although I have and love my end grain boards, I often use sort of thin plastic mats on the counter tops to cut on. Easy to transport for, easy to wash . I toss them every month or 2, depending on their shape. You can see where guests thought my counter top was a cutting board. After 20 years, not so pretty.

Yea even though the end grain is advertised as being a chopping block countertop we are going with one massive block that is kinda inset in the countertop at the end of the island that is for both looks and food prep. And then we are planning on at least one smaller block that can be handled easily so hopefully we won't have to walk into the kitchen to see cutting marks on the actual tops but kids/guests all have a mind of their own and the obvious can fly right over some peoples head.

 

[worshipNtribute]

Well a little update.

When I opened the 5000mcd I wasn't the least bit impressed after opening the Konosuke a few hours prior. It just didn't give me the wow factor like the super thin edge of the lazer. The Miyabi FnF was great and the knife had good balance considering it's heavier feeling than the Kono HD2 270mm. But, once we broke them out and cut mushrooms, potatoes, squash, and onion we both preferred the Miyabi. It is totally different and quite a bit shorter but the actual cutting performance was close to equal. The Kono lazer goes through food easier but has a bit of stick where the Miyabi doesn't stick.

Both are quite an upgrade over our random gnisu and hand me down knives we've collected over the years. The Kono can saw through a tomato without holding the tomato (haven't tried the Miyabi) and the lack of food stick of the Miyabi is making it the favorite so far. Once we get used to the larger blade it could have its purposes where it gets used over the shorter Miyabi for sure.

Awesome - thanks for the update. I'm surprised the kono has such food stick compared to the miyabi. Theoretically with the laser it shouldn't be sticking much at all. The Kono 270 is actually a bit shorter than a true 270mm but once you get used to a bigger blade (especially one as light/nimble as the kono) it'll really be hard to go back to smaller knives.

Congrats on the two knives! Hope they serve you well.

 

[Alford78]

Just a random update.

Last night we were cooking as usual and the wife was cutting veggies while I was prepping some fish and she calmly says, "well I just cut myself for the first time with our new knife." My first response was a laugh but also said I bet it didn't hurt though did it while I was turning around to check it out. It wasn't bad at all just a clean small cut that was just deep enough that it wouldn't stop for a few minutes but sure enough didn't hurt at all.

My wife has been cooking/prepping for our family every since I've known her and don't remember her cutting herself but still thought I'd pull up some chef knife cutting technique videos I thought were educational and not flat out boring. She was willing to watch them and didn't take offense to my trying to help her handle a knife so was glad she just thought I was trying to help.

I didn't end up buying the stones I wanted since couldn't get them all at one place but ended up with King 1000, King 6000, Naniwa 400, Suehiro 1000, Suehiro 320, a cheap coarse flattening stone, and a universal stone holder. I've only sharpened our old 7" gnisu Santoku with the King 1000 and 6000 to an "OK" edge with a 10 minute session but didn't mess up the bevel or dull it by any means. It was brought back from super dull to ok sharp with my first sharpening session with a whetstone in 10 years or longer. Kinda like riding a bike though so imagine I'll get an even better edge next attempt.

I should have bovine, balsa, and felt strops tomorrow along with some pastes so will grab another dull and abused dust collecting knife from the drawer and try to do a total make over from 320-1 micron or lower strop next time.

I've been looking at various sharpening videos/techniques and am curious about getting a scary sharp and polished edge from using a stroping motion only once get to 1000 grit stone. I'd imagine it would take a lot longer using this method but would like to give it a try. Don't know the correct terminology for it but guess it would be called "edge trailing technique?"

Enough rambling. Was only going to mention the sharp blade minor cut not hurting but turned into much more lol.