Hen and Rooster knives ?

[Mike-The-Knife]

I'm still sort of new to traditionals but have been doing some looking and reading . I have a question about Hen and Rooster . I've been looking at them and they "look" well made , but the prices I see them at are all over the place . Some seem to be so inexpensive while others are well over $100 and they all look to have the same quality of finish . I know there are different models in any company , but can someone explain the huge price range to me ?

 

[Rappy]

I've looked at them aswell but I was new to traditionals, when I saw that some were made in spain? I passed over them.
American made is the sweet spot I believe.

 

[Mike-The-Knife]

So is that why there's such a wide range in their prices ? Are some made in the U.S. and some made in Spain and perhaps other countries as well ?

 

[Railsplitter]

Some of the higher priced models you are seeing may have been made in Bertram, Germany in the 1970's. I don't know that much about them and I've forgotten most of what I did know but A.G. Russell owned Hen & Rooster during part of the 1970's. Based on what I have read, those models are highly regarded by collectors and some of them bring top dollar.

I can't say much about the current production Hen & Rooster knives because I know even less about them.

 

[bdev]

Here some text from Mike Latham's website, Collectorknives.

"Hen & Rooster Cutlery has been producing fine pocket knives since the 1860's. These Hen & Rooster knives have been among the best knives made in the world. Hen and Rooster knives were made at the C.Bertram factory up until the early 1980's and these older Hen & Rooster knives are highly sought after. Klaas made Hen & Rooster for Frost Cutlery starting in the 1980's and most recently Boker and Olbertz have made Hen & Rooster for import into the United States. In the last year or so there have been some Hen & Rooster examples with questionable tang stamping that are not specifically tang stamp "Solingen Germany". If we are not comfortable that prospective Hen & Rooster knives are made in Germany (wholly) - we will not carry them."

 

[RKH]

Mike is right. Hen and Rooster knives before 1980s were some of the best knives every made! A G Russell tried to keep them going from 1970 to 1980 but had to let the company be taken over by creditors in 1980. Mr. Russell did his best to keep the company going but the U.S. dollar against the German Mark was tough. BTW, I wish I had bought some original Hen Rooster when available but was raising a family and just could not afford them. And Mike is honest about if current Hen and Rooster knives are misleading on where they are made. I have bought GEC knives from him and he good man to do business as well as A G.

RKH

 

[waynorth]

There Is a way to tell by the tang stamping which knives were the the good, old ones, but I have forgotten. Maybe someone will fill us in?

 

[leghog]

My one Hen & Rooster. Hen & Rooster Bertram Cutlery stag coffin jack made in/stamped Soligen, Germany. I was at the University of Tennessee during the 1982 Word's Fair there in Knoxville. I picked up this knife here on BF not too long ago.

 

[dma1965]

There Is a way to tell by the tang stamping which knives were the the good, old ones, but I have forgotten. Maybe someone will fill us in?

The original knives are not marked Hen and Rooster and do not have a shield. They are stamped with the name of the company that distributed them. Look for either Voss, Gutmann, Carter, or several others (found on this page http://www.henandrooster.com/aboutus.aspx) on the tang, with the reverse side having the Hen and Rooster logo. The originals, made by Bertram in Solingen are not marked Bertram or Hen and Rooster.

Later knives were also of good quality, but noticeably different from the originals, which had a nearly custom level of fit and finish. They eventaully went to Asia, as I understand, and the quality went downhill.

Any of the German made ones are good, and they should be stamped Solingen Germany. Ones also stamped Bertram are from the 80's onward. On the originals, often times Germany is stamped under the distributor name and Solingen on the reverse, under the logo. Ones stamped only Germany are, as I have been told, Asian knives made with German steel. Ones with no national origin are pure Asian, again, as I have been told.

 

[black mamba]

I have one tang stamped Solingen Germany on one side and Bertram Cutlery on the other, but it does have the H&R blade etch and shield. Secondary blades are stamped Rostfrei. Good quality knife, springs a little on the soft side (4-5 snap) but very smooth action.

So, dma1965, would you say this is a late '80s through 1990s era knife? I bought it as new/old stock just a few years back.

 

[fatcorgi]

The original knives are not marked Hen and Rooster and do not have a shield. They are stamped with the name of the company that distributed them. Look for either Voss, Gutmann, Carter, or several others (found on this page http://www.henandrooster.com/aboutus.aspx) on the tang, with the reverse side having the Hen and Rooster logo. The originals, made by Bertram in Solingen are not marked Bertram or Hen and Rooster.

Later knives were also of good quality, but noticeably different from the originals, which had a nearly custom level of fit and finish. They eventaully went to Asia, as I understand, and the quality went downhill.

Any of the German made ones are good, and they should be stamped Solingen Germany. Ones also stamped Bertram are from the 80's onward. On the originals, often times Germany is stamped under the distributor name and Solingen on the reverse, under the logo. Ones stamped only Germany are, as I have been told, Asian knives made with German steel. Ones with no national origin are pure Asian, again, as I have been told.

the pre 1980 ones are stamped 'Bertram' and the post 1980 ones 'Bertram Cutlery', that is an easy way to tell (though not foolproof, as there are fake bertrams). Custom is probably an unnecessary exaggeration, they are excellent knives, with quality comparable to '70s Case knives, but a lot more delicate, with thinner grinds and slimmer designs. I did briefly own one of the later models made by Klaas, which wasn't as nice.

 

[Mike-The-Knife]

As I expected , ALOT of great information from you guys . Thanks , traditional knife brands can have changed hands , sometimes a few times . It makes it tuff when you're getting started .
I wasn't all that interested in traditional knives before . But I've come to appreciate the higher quality of workmanship in the older knives as well as some newer ones like GEC . There's just something and a good fit and finish that you can actually see and feel

 

[leghog]

The coffin jack I posted above has the hen, rooster, rooster, sun stamp with Soligen Germany below on the tang and IIRC Bertram is stamped on the other side/backside of the tang (but I'm not at home so can't check the backside of the tang) . I certainly wasn't made after the early 1980s.

 

[fatcorgi]

The coffin jack I posted above has the hen, rooster, rooster, sun stamp with Soligen Germany below on the tang and IIRC Bertram is stamped on the other side/backside of the tang (but I'm not at home so can't check the backside of the tang) . I certainly wasn't made after the early 1980s.

the date of transfer was 1980, the subsequent companies used some of the leftovers from the betram cutlers, creating hybrids.

 

[A. G. Russell]

Please understand, Frost is not overcharging for what he is selling, he sells lots of cheap crap but the knives he marks Bertram or H&R are well made, not the original quality but they are fairly priced, all of those made by Klaas, Boker, and those made in Spain. All of those made in the original shop from 1865 to July of 1980 are of MUCH higher quality and are worth a great deal of money for those who love quality.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

excellent info, thanks guys. I've thought about looking an H&R, but I have a bowie made by them given to me by my late father in law back in 06 or 07 that he purchased while on a mission trip in Tennessee. It's marked Toledo, Spain, but the grind is all over the place, the antler fit is asymmetrical, etc. It was a really nice thought, but the fit and finish quality isn't there.

 

[knifeswapper]

There are many made the last couple years that are marked both Solingen and Bertram, that I will not stock.

I wrote this some time back; but now they are even etched with Bertram. With a noticeable and immediate change in quality and overall style of finish.

 

[mtngunr]

There are many made the last couple years that are marked both Solingen and Bertram, that I will not stock.

I wrote this some time back; but now they are even etched with Bertram. With a noticeable and immediate change in quality and overall style of finish.

I could not agree more......whether Boker or anyone else, the etching rather than stamping tangs suggests outside sourcing of blades, they are rarely actually stated to be "Solingen steel", and differences between various price lines appears to be blade etching only.

I suspect, same as above, that latest goods from many famous names now are having just enough "work" done to them to be able to be marked as any manner of product of Germany or Solingen....

The point being, observe what is NOT said on blades or in print....marketing nowadays on ANY product always leaves us to fill in blanks in the most favorable way, while sellers tippy toe around what is NOT said....things which they normally would be shouting from the very housetops if true.....and quite conspicuous by its absence.

By all means buy Hen and Rooster....but if you wish classic, then make sure blade not etched and make sure not marked "Bertram Cutlery".....importer marks such as Voss, Gutmann etc listed above all indicate pre-1975.....likewise "Bertram" or "C.Bertram" often with the birds, and in some old cases only the birds and "Solingen"....and "r" on blades is "rostfrei".....

And they still can be found in excellent shape with no problem for $150-$200 on auction sites.....but if ANY question then ask DETAILED questions giving seller no way to wiggle, or if a bad feeling then WALK and another will surely come along.

In dating the older ones, but post-WWII, collector guides indicating bird style have been shown incorrect....about only solid hint is that "Germany" was added circa 1950....so dating often stops right there in the 1950-1975 range.....also the newer post-1980 knives are found with birds from various eras duplicated on one knife on different blades...so bird style is not much help....

 

[knifeswapper]

By all means buy Hen and Rooster....but if you wish classic, then make sure blade not etched and make sure not marked "Bertram Cutlery".....importer marks such as Voss, Gutmann etc listed above all indicate pre-1975.....likewise "Bertram" or "C.Bertram" often with the birds, and in some old cases only the birds and "Solingen"....and "r" on blades is "rostfrei".....

I have seen a lot of 40 year old HR's that were not as nice as those made in the 1990's by Boker. So I can't agree with this statement as the Boker series over the last 25 years or so are marked Bertram. It would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[custardextract]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. I've been researching some old knives my grandfather gave me and have identified one as a Hen and Rooster, distributed by Voss Cut Co.

I have to admit I initially overlooked this knife out of the 5 or so that I received, because it looked 'boring' compared to a few others , but after spending some time with it I started to notice it was clearly of a better quality than the rest. Thought I would share some pics. I'd be interested to know more about the design/pattern or the approximate year of construction if anyone knows.

Thanks!