HF Mini mill for knifemaking (for dummies)

PIndelicato

PIndelicato

Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Messages
1,577
Hello,

I picked up a HF 44991 (Sieg X2) mini mill off of Craigslist over the weekend, and with no prior milling experience I'm not really sure where to start. It appears to be in pretty good condition and has had the Stirling belt drive conversion installed. It came with a cheapie drill press type vise, a drill chuck and a set of HF endmills. I purchased this with the following in mind: more precise drilling (than my current cheap benchtop drill press is capable of), slotting guards and fullers, and misc. folder 'stuff' (cutting lock bars, reaming holes, etc.).

The good news is that there seems to be an overwhelming amount of info on the web about this mill...the bad news is that there is an overwhelming amount of info on the web about this mill (and much of it seems to be dedicated to CNC conversion.) Can someone point me to some elementary school level resources where I can read about the basic operations of milling? Also, what specific operations do I need to learn about given the intended use described above?

Finally, I would greatly appreciate some advice on tooling that would be commensurate in quality and price given the quality of this mill and how I plan to use it:

-Is Little Machine Shop a good source for decent quality tooling, etc.?
-Is the set of HF end mills that came with it worth trying to use?
-Is the drill chuck sufficient, or do I need to get collets?
-What kinds and sizes of tooling should I acquire for the above stated uses, and should I buy HSS or carbide?
-What size and type of vise should I get (assuming the drill press vise is not adequate, or is it)?
-Is tramming needed and worthwile for what I want to do with this machine?

Thanks very much in advance for any advice!
 
An intro level machining class at a local community college is a great way to go if your wanting to learn basics.
Apart from that, any decent machining textbook should be able to "book learn" you a handful of stuff. If I were looking for a cheap text book, I'd get ahold of the machining instructor at a local community college and tell him your looking for a used text book, and ask if any of his finished, or finishing, students might have one they'll sell you. This is the textbook I'm using for my classes, and it's pretty good. It's got milling, turning, CNC fundamentals, surface grinding, drilling, layout, etc...
 
http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/4879489/AGI-Milling_Machine-Darrell_Holland-6DVD-ISO

https://smartflix.com/store/video/574/Professional-Machine-Shop-Course-Vertical-Mill


Whatever they tell you there, you have to adjust for in that smaller machine


-Is the drill chuck sufficient, or do I need to get collets?
-What kinds and sizes of tooling should I acquire for the above stated uses, and should I buy HSS or carbide?
-What size and type of vise should I get (assuming the drill press vise is not adequate, or is it)?
-Is tramming needed and worthwile for what I want to do with this machine?
Click to expand...

The drill chuck is for drills, it will not hold an endmill without twisting out.

That machine lacks rigidity, i say HSS or HSS cobalt not carbide

If you don't tram it, or at least check it, how do you know whether it's straight or not ?
 
oldanvilyoungsmith said:
An intro level machining class at a local community college is a great way to go if your wanting to learn basics.
Apart from that, any decent machining textbook should be able to "book learn" you a handful of stuff. If I were looking for a cheap text book, I'd get ahold of the machining instructor at a local community college and tell him your looking for a used text book, and ask if any of his finished, or finishing, students might have one they'll sell you. This is the textbook I'm using for my classes, and it's pretty good. It's got milling, turning, CNC fundamentals, surface grinding, drilling, layout, etc...
Click to expand...

I don't really have time to take a class I don't think, but I hadn't considered a text book. Thanks for the great idea!

12345678910 said:
http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/4879489/AGI-Milling_Machine-Darrell_Holland-6DVD-ISO

https://smartflix.com/store/video/574/Professional-Machine-Shop-Course-Vertical-Mill


Whatever they tell you there, you have to adjust for in that smaller machine




The drill chuck is for drills, it will not hold an endmill without twisting out.

That machine lacks rigidity, i say HSS or HSS cobalt not carbide

If you don't tram it, or at least check it, how do you know whether it's straight or not ?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links numbers...I assume the piratebay one is for pirated copies of stuff? If so, I think I will pass on that one. As far as tramming goes, I just wasn't sure it was worth the effort or not (given both the class of machine and my intended uses.)

Can anyone make some suggestions for a minimalist 'starter kit of tooling', vise style/size, etc. that would be appropriate for what I hope to use this for? I really have no idea where to start, and I don't want to buy a bunch of stuff that won't work or that I will never end up using.

Thanks for the help!
 
I would do more harm than good trying to suggest too many things since I still have pretty much no idea what I am doing. ;)
That being said, the tooling that came with it is fine as a learning/dont care if I break it stuff. After that, once you use carbide tooling you probably wont go back to HSS.

Now let's see some guards. ;)
 
PIndelicato said:
Thanks for the links numbers...I assume the piratebay one is for pirated copies of stuff?

If so, I think I will pass on that one. As far as tramming goes, I just wasn't sure it was worth the effort or not (given both the class of machine and my intended uses.)

Can anyone make some suggestions for a minimalist 'starter kit of tooling', vise style/size, etc. that would be appropriate for what I hope to use this for? I really have no idea where to start, and I don't want to buy a bunch of stuff that won't work or that I will never end up using.
Click to expand...

Both links are the same set of videos.
I posted the links for the descriptions, the source of where you can buy it, the reviews, and such.

The set is $500 so if you can borrow or rent, do so.

If any library in Canada or the USA has it, my local library can get it for free or minor shipping charges.
But the librarians give much better service if you go in with good info on it.



A tooling kit depends on what you have
and what you want to do with it.
 
OK, thanks for the help guys! I realize I will likely end up with lots of stuff over time, but I'm just trying to zero in on the few most useful items to get me started for the operations I expect to use this machine for...

What sort of vise and parallels would be most useful? And what size for this mill? Would something like this be appropriate? http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3763&category=

Maybe a few 1/8" HSS end mills and appropriate R8 collet for cutting guard slots? The endmill set that came with it has nothing smaller than 3/16", which would be too large for most guard slots I would think.

How about cutting folder lockbars? Can I chuck one of my Dremel cutoff wheels into the drill chuck, or is that not a good idea?

Sounds like a face mill might be handy for flattening things...what's a reasonable size/style for this class of mill? Or should I just use one of my larger diameter endmills for this sort of thing?

How about one of the clamping sets...useful for knife tasks, or can everything be done with just the vise and therefore would be money wasted?
 
PIndelicato said:
OK, thanks for the help guys! I realize I will likely end up with lots of stuff over time, but I'm just trying to zero in on the few most useful items to get me started for the operations I expect to use this machine for...

What sort of vise and parallels would be most useful? And what size for this mill? Would something like this be appropriate? http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3763&category=

Maybe a few 1/8" HSS end mills and appropriate R8 collet for cutting guard slots? The endmill set that came with it has nothing smaller than 3/16", which would be too large for most guard slots I would think.

How about cutting folder lockbars?
Look at slitting saws
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRAR?PMSECT=0000000700



Sounds like a face mill might be handy for flattening things...what's a reasonable size/style for this class of mill? Or should I just use one of my larger diameter endmills for this sort of thing?

How about one of the clamping sets...useful for knife tasks, or can everything be done with just the vise and therefore would be money wasted?
Click to expand...
.................
 
I am about as far from an expert as you'll get on this subject, but I'll chime in with my experience on a couple of these.

PIndelicato said:
What sort of vise and parallels would be most useful? And what size for this mill? Would something like this be appropriate? http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3763&category=
Click to expand...

I don't have any experience with those little screwless vises so I won't even pretend. Concerning parallels, I have a set of 1/8 inchers that looks very much like THESE. I also have a similar set that is wider... I think they're 1/4". I use the 1/8" set ALL OF THE TIME... but have barely ever used the bigger ones. The ones shown in your link seem like they'd be OK for that little vise.

PIndelicato said:
Maybe a few 1/8" HSS end mills and appropriate R8 collet for cutting guard slots? The endmill set that came with it has nothing smaller than 3/16", which would be too large for most guard slots I would think.
Click to expand...

You may want a few more sizes than just 1/8th. I mostly only buy carbide these days. You can get good deals on eBay where the carbides are nearly the same price as the HSS... and in my {admittedly limited} experience, they just work better in most situations. Many of the guards that I do are on "ricasso-less" knives. When building these, because the slot is generally trapezoidal, I generally end up using several different sizes of end mills -- often as small as 1/16" -- and cleaning up the stepped edges with files. My favorite end mill is a 5/32" carbide... just seems to be the sweet spot for my mill, and gets used more than any other (for various tasks).


PIndelicato said:
Sounds like a face mill might be handy for flattening things...what's a reasonable size/style for this class of mill? Or should I just use one of my larger diameter endmills for this sort of thing?
Click to expand...

I have a 2" face-mill. I almost NEVER use it on metal. I'm sure that many of my problems stem from my lack of sufficient knowledge of proper feeds and speeds (though I do try to reference Machinery's Handbook and other sources), but I feel that my X3 mill just doesn't have enough mass or rigidity to pull off a clean face-mill cut in steel... and I don't even want to talk about the time that I tried to use it on titanium. :grumpy:

With my mill, I would definitely rather use multiple passes with a smaller mill. I very seldom will even go as big as 1/2".

PIndelicato said:
How about one of the clamping sets...useful for knife tasks, or can everything be done with just the vise and therefore would be money wasted?
Click to expand...

For guard work, I predominantly use my vise... but I use my clamps a lot for http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/817758-Balisong-2-WIP. They are very handy for some applications.

Erin
 
Look into installing the air spring kit from lilmachine shop, will allow for better down feed than the torsion spring set up. Im finishing the install of mine this morning couldn't find my m6 tap.. I just picked this machine up and am pretty excited to start learning on it!
 
Erin Burke said:
I have a 2" face-mill. I almost NEVER use it on metal. I'm sure that many of my problems stem from my lack of sufficient knowledge of proper feeds and speeds (though I do try to reference Machinery's Handbook and other sources), but I feel that my X3 mill just doesn't have enough mass or rigidity to pull off a clean face-mill cut in steel... and I don't even want to talk about the time that I tried to use it on titanium. :grumpy:
Erin
Click to expand...

Try removing all of the inserts except one and use it as a fly cutter. You won't very good material removal rates but you'll be able to get a nice flat surface with a good finish. Use the lowest RPM that doesn't give you BUE (probably around 500 RPM) and feed it .004" per revolution and take a very shallow cut (.003") and you might get some good results.
 
Thanks again for the help and links everyone. I ordered a vise, clamps, parallels, etc. from Little Machine Shop along with some instructional DVDs they had, so hopefully that will get me going. I noticed a couple of issues with this machine in the course of trying to tram it:

1) when tightening the Z-axis lock to tram it with a dial indicator, it seems to raise the spindle a few thousandths or so (enough that the dial indicator is no longer making contact with the table.)

2) there is quite a bit of side to side slop in the X-axis with the Y-axis lock fully loosened. Snugging that lock up slightly reduces the play, but it's still there.

I guess you get what you pay for with a machine like this...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top