High speed steel from circular saw blade info

The Mastiff

The Mastiff

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Apr 21, 2006
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I have a fishing knife from the 50's or early 60's that is marked on the blade "Iffin High speed steel. The knife itself is a common design from the times with the saw looking scaler on top, and red and black fibre pseudo leather grips. The "Iffin" is cut off and is surrounded by a knife blade stamp.

I'm not looking for value, but I am looking for guesses as to what steel this knife is likely. It takes a very, very sharp edge, and is easy to sharpen. It looks almost chromed, or with a high nickle content. Even scuffed it shines. It does pit from rust though.

I wish I could post a picture but the ex took the camera.

What steel is typically used in large circular saw blades like they use at lumber mills. Sorry I don't have more. Guesses are fine as there is no maker mark on this one, and no picture to help. I just like this steel and would like a knife made for me out of something similar. Thanks, Joe

BTW, I'm familiar with L6. This doesn't appear to be like my L6 knives.
 
Hi,I asked a frind of mine what steel was used to make C/Saw blades and this is the reply I got.

Some that I know get used for the purpose are SKS-5, L6 and 80CrV2. Generally all fairly high carbon steels with only small amounts of different alloying elements to improve the toughness. Typically run something like 35 to 45 RC, any harder is generally too brittle for using in something that could end up all over the room. They could all be quite a bit harder if you re-treat.
hope it helps a bit.
I have made a few out of old C/Saw blades and they do take on a nice shine.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490814
 
Thanks Tinbasher. Beautiful work on the knife you made too. That's a knife to be proud of. Joe
 
I have also read that saw mill blades were L-6, for the toughness factor especially. If I can locate the source again, I'll post it.



Tinbasher: I followed your link, well done:thumbup:
 
Is L6 a high speed steel? My first thought when thinking of HSS is M2.
 
For large cirkular saw blades for woodcutting in sawmills there is pretty much only two steel grade swidely used, and has been since forever, and that is 1075 (0.75% carbon) of 15N2 (could have other names as well, 0.75% carbon and 2% Nickel). 1075 is used for the thinner blades, up to maybe 0.080-0.100" thick, and 15N2 is used with thicker blades.

The nickel is there primarly because it allows for longer quench times, thats why it's in the thicker blades.

As someone mentioned the hardness would be low, about 40-45 HRC, but with a good re-heat treatment you could get it into the high fifties and maybe even hit 60. I dont know how hard 1075 gets with an optimum heat treat.

All in all, it's not a bad steel if you take care of it corrosion-wise.
 
The nickel is there primarely for toughness ! These days it could be any number of steels .
 
mete said:
The nickel is there primarely for toughness ! These days it could be any number of steels .
Click to expand...

It may be that you know something I dont, but since I have been a technichal specialist for strip steel for large bandsaws I know that business fairly well. In that business there are only three suppliers of a high-end steel product. Sandvik, Uddeholm and Daido. Although the structure of the steel, the flatness and straightness varies with the three suppliers the chemical composition does not. For steel thicker that 1.80 mm there is 2% Nickel, there used to be 3% but due to better H/T capacity the nickel was backed down 1% (it's expensive). It's there for H/T purposes, it also has some ductility benefits when swaging, but this was not even known when Nickel was taken out of the this, thinner, woodband steel. And this has happened fairly recently.

The same customers buying/making finished bandsaws also make circular saws for sawmills. We supplied this material up into the mid-eighties. We started probably around the year 1900, or even before that. During my time in that position I got some enquiries for circular saw steel. All of them in 1075 (also known as C75, 15LM) or 15N2 (the same but with 2% Nickel).

So I'm pretty sure you have a 2 or 3 % Nickel 0.75% Carbon steel.

The only possible alternative is if it's from a metal cutting blade, then it could be pretty much anything, but I would say there is still about 80% probability or the steel being a 2-3% Ni and 0.75%C steel.

Ni widens the quenching window in the H/T process.
 
I use high speed steel from power hack saw blades , it comes hard , like serious hard , and can still be heat treated to make it harder yet if you really want to .

My favorite is all hard starret blades , but cleaning them up is not easy , no way Id be able to make them mirror polished with my equipment ( 1x angle grinder )

knifeduntest.jpg

bigonedun.jpg


one day Im going to invest in a belt sander and a buff .
 
Razorsharp, thanks for the info. One of the problems in these knife forums is that a saw blade of any kind is often assumed to be L6.They still come out as 'mystery steels ' unless identified ! I wonder what the low end bandsaw blades are made from. Nickel does wonders for toughness . A 3 % Ni steel is used in the bearing industry for the toughest case hardened steels for heavy impact load bearings and gears.
 
I have these saw blades that are long and thick, probably used either for a metal hacksaw (power hack saw, don't know what to call them) (they are used to cut bars of metal) Real curious what they're made of
 
some of the power hacksaw blades are "bi-metal" ( HSS teeth and softer metal backing ) , some are all hard ( all HSS) in my experience , Im not a whizz at this , just have an interest in scoring cheap / free blades but good ones I can use

its interesting what you can turn a flat strip of saw blade into
knifeblade1.jpg
 
Thank you very much for the information. One question. Would the .75% carbon, 2% nickel steel be considered "High speed steel"? I thought HSS was designed for "Red hardness". It has a very fine grain, and flexes ( It's a fishing knife with saw like scaler on back). The fine grain allows it to get down to very low angles and it's never chipped. I've had it to 15 degrees inclusive and it cut like a straight razor, but has a little bite to it like a tungsten steel. Is there any maker called "Griffin" or something similar ending in "iffin" . The outline stamp around Griffin is in the shape of a bandsaw. I was told it was a circular saw, but I'm really not sure. It might have been a bandsaw. Thanks. Joe
 
I'd be inclined to believe that a band saw would be a bit thinner than a similar sized knife in circular saw steel.
 
I think T1 was used in old HSS blades. Maybe it is M2, M7, or M42.
 
The Mastiff said:
Thank you very much for the information. One question. Would the .75% carbon, 2% nickel steel be considered "High speed steel"? I thought HSS was designed for "Red hardness".
Click to expand...

No, I would not call it a HSS. The maybe there are some HSS circular blades out there but it would be an expensive luxury imo. The reason is that today the vast majority circular blades are tipped, either with a cobalt-alloy like Stellite or with tungsten carbide. The steel only need to have good brazability (sp?) and a very good flatness. The grade is then for cost reasons chosen to be the cheapest grade that can be hardened uniformly to about 40-45 HRC.

Using HSS would only be beneficial if it was a spring set blade. Possibly also swage-set but I doubt that the swagebility of HSS like M2 or M4 would be good enough.

Non-uniform hardness, gives flatness problems which is the major concern for the blade. If you have seen a circular gangsaw in a big sawmill in action I think you can imagine the problems of a non-levelled blade.

Someone also asked about thicknesses for bandsaws. The biggest one I have seen was in Oregon, dont remember exactly where, it used a 56 feet, 16" wide and 11BWG (0.120")thick bandsaw. This is also the biggest standard size for bandsaws. A big circular blade performing the same task would be 30-50% thicker (dont quote me on that).

If you guys like these carbon steels I would suggest that you look up your nearest sawmill and ask them for some scrapped woodband/circular saw steel. They always have some scrapped steel that you can probably get for free or a box of doughnuts. I know there are a bunch of knife-makers that do this. Some even make a buck sell it.
 
The way this knife sharpens and the edge it takes, along with the stamping of a jigsaw type blade make me believe it is a real HSS just as it is stamped. The circular saw bit came from a guy who guessed, but never saw it. This is thin, slightly flexible for fish cleaning, and has a tungsten feel to the blade after sharpening.Super blue can feel that way some times, as can vascowear, M2 not so much. It's smoother and doesn't have the micro saw grit that tungsten gives me feel wise. It taskes a savage edge too.

I guess there's no way to know unless someone here rembers a company ending in "iffin". Thanks again. BTW, It's tougher to sharpen than L6 and I'm using DMT's coarse, & medium. Joe
 
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