hitachi white #2

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Jan 17, 2008
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I've recently been doing some Japanese style kitchen knives for myself and friends. Mostly Nakiri and similarly double-beveled blades. It's been a highly enjoyable experience, but I've been thinking of branching out into some other steels. Specifically I've been thinking of trying some of the hitachi steels if they can be found.

Well I was just cruising around ebay and ran across a seller advertising a san mai billet of white paper #2. I wanted to get people's opinion before I order one and see how it goes. Anyone familiar with the seller? Concerns about the materials? I'm always leery of ebay purchases...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/San-Mai-bar-stock-w-Hitachi-White-Paper-2-Steel-core-knife-making-blade-billet-/111868002206?hash=item1a0bda3f9e:g:wrkAAOSwFqJWjcEw
 
I believe white steel #2 is white steel#1 just with less carbon
The white steels are very pure steels with little to no impurities (it's just iron with carbon)
They should both take very fine edges and hold them rather well
As to the advantages of white steel#2 over #1, I would have no idea, they both seem very similar to me
I would assume #2 takes a finer edge than #1 but with less edge retention
As for the seller, I don't use eBay so I'm not familiar with the seller


Please if any of my information is wrong, correct me
 
i've purchased from him and it's no problem. you can see his feedback is solid at 100%
Ebay has shifted to having alot of buyer protection so it's less concerning as a buyer now.

Do you plan to forge this bar?
 
Ive bought that very steel from him already. solid seller, good steel same thing you get from dictum.
 
Quite a bit more money that Dictum for the steel cost BUT.........always a big but involved. LOL. A single piece like that from Dictum is $14.50, but you have to factor in the shipping which means that you don't get a "better" deal until you order like 3 pieces. Shipping from Germany is a flat rate of around $35 total for 1-3 pieces and $42 for 4-6. You have to play with the quantities to get the best price and it doesn't start to come down that much until you order like 10 pieces of the more expensive stuff like the $30-35 Dictum price 500mm monosteel white or blue bars.. Hope the guys gets some more of that Hitachi stuff, because it would be nice to be able to buy a single bar of "pure" white without dropping $70, over half of it shipping cost. :eek:
Ive bought that very steel from him already. solid seller, good steel same thing you get from dictum.
 
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When I ordered they only had two bars left. Kinda kicking myself for not buying both...

Looking forward to working with the new (to me) materials :D
 
I bought some from him off the forums as well. Here's what it looks like if you do stock removal:



I'm planning on forging some of the other bars that I have.
 
Haven't heard anything, but I thought that he was talking about a Blue substitute, maybe like a modified version of 115W8/1.2442?
Does anyone know what happened with Aldo's idea to make a similar steel at his german mill?
 
I have used his steel, too. The price seems higher than Dictum, but with lower shipping and no duty fees, it isn't much more.

A few tips on using Hitachi san-mai billets:
1) Profile the entire blade before doing any tapers or bevels. Clean up the profile to 220 grit or finer along the blade edge and spine.
2) Dip the blade in 3:1 to 5:1 FC and rinse well. You will see a black line where the core is. It isn't nearly as wide as one might think ... usually about 1mm ( .040"). It only takes a few seconds for the etch to blacken the high carbon core. The plain iron will stay white, or only slightly darken.
3) From tip to plunge, grind an edge bevel at 45 degrees. Take it down until it is touching the black exactly. This will center the core down the edge. Etch again to check that the core is centered.
3) Distal taper has to be kept to a minimum or the core will come out too far along the tip.
4) Start the bevels and take them down to a FFG with the core just touching the san-mai sides along the edge. Do a little on one side and a little on the other. Sneak up on the edge until both sides have the bevel just touching the core. Etch as often as needed to check. You want the grit to be 220 by this point.
5) Take the bevels down with 220 or 400 grit (slower is safer) until the core shows along both sides evenly as a 1mm ( .040") stripe when you etch. Sand a tad, etch, rinse, sand some more. It will take some time, but you should be able to get it pretty even on both sides.
6) The core should have an edge about .020"-.030" wide now. Any further adjustments should be done only with 400 grit. Hand sanding at this point is almost a requirement unless you are really skilled at the grinder.
7) HT with a quench in Parks#50. Temper twice at 400F for an hour each. Water quench between tempers. Slower quenchants ( canola and such) may not harden the edge sufficiently. Water/brine can be used by the brave hearted, buy I far prefer Parks #50 or any similar fast oil.
8) Be aware that the sides are still soft steel, as they are plain iron. Even the suminagashi san-mai is fairly soft. The sides will sand down just as fast after HT as before, so don't hogget crazy or use any coarse grits. Hand sanding with a hard backing block is by far the best idea. Take the bevels down to a near zero edge, switching sides often and etching regularly to keep the dark edge lines as even as possible. It will walk farther away from the edge at the thinner tip than along the belly edge. Just keep it as even as possible from side to side. Take it to at least 800 grit and you are done. Don't attempt to polish the san-mai sides, as they are soft and won't take a good polish or stay that way.
9) Finish the knife and when everything is done, sharpen at a fairly low angle. I use 12 degrees per side as a rule. This will make a VERY sharp edge in the hard steel. Once the entire knife is done and the edge is sharp, you can slice a lemon a couple times to re-darken the hard metal. It will darken in time on its own, anyway.
10) Oil the blade well to prevent rust spots and pits.
 
When I ordered they only had two bars left. Kinda kicking myself for not buying both...

Looking forward to working with the new (to me) materials :D

Don't feel bad, you just left it for me :D Seriously I was going to order a few bars the other day and a bar of the blue then I go look and its all gone but one bar of white..
 
Stacy, tempering at 400° what do you think your ending up with, about 61rc? You didn't mention your aust temp but Im guessing between 1450° and 1475°? thanks
 
Sorry, didn't see that part.

I haven't decided yet. I might do one stock removal and see how it goes, then forge one to see how that goes. nice thing about a bar of steel. It's a blank slate ;)

here's some white steel 2 that I forged and finished up this past weekend

47DC3BA4-FE43-4B29-A7A5-81F90CA6FE19_zpsrywr7d78.jpg


I don't have alot of experience in forging as I'm still learning
but you can search for my recent Hitachi steel WIP if that helps

and I'm just upgrading my membership to be able to sell, I have some Blue bars I've been hoarding to let go in the near future.

here is a guide I made for myself, for forging only
anyone can use it if helpful or modify it for your needs.
it's just the same data from the sheet that comes with the bar of steel and some notes for me

hitachi%20steel%20guide_zps9mlz5txh.jpg
 
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IIRC, I use 1450F for austenitization, and get Rc 60-61 with a 400F temper. The Hitachi specs from the sheet that are posted above are great for fillet and sashimi knives, but I think they are a bit too hard and chippy for most blades. The san-mai will be most likely used on working blades, which need a tad more toughness.
 
62 seems like a good compromise for a "hard use" blade with steels like this.
 
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Nothing wrong with Rc62, but remember that a Rc 58 blade is just as sharp as a Rc 62 blade. It has nothing to do with cutting ability. It only affects the length of time the edge lasts against abrasion, and how well the edge resists damage from chipping and micro-chipping. The Rc 58 edge will need re-sharpening sooner, but will last longer without chipping. The Rc 62 edge will go for longer between sharpenings, but may degrade due to micro-chipping much quicker. The use of the blade will determine which is the best hardness choice.

In my experience blades that get general use need to fall in the Rc58-61 range to have reliable edge life. I only use the Rc62-64 range in dedicated fine slicers. This is the place where the Hitachi white #1 yanagi-ba will earn its high price tag.

Also, remember that Rc58-60 is HARD. Knife blades were Rc 52-55 until fairly recent times. Many of the cheaper knives today still are.
 
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