Hook blade knives for utility/self defense

Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Messages
498
I was just wondering what you forumite(s) thought of
hawkbill/hook blade knives for utility / self defense use.
I like the "raptor claw" effect of such blades, plus their
intimidating looks ( Spyderco Merlin/Harpy/Matriarch/Civilian
/Cricket ) ;) What about the rest of you?

"...and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one..."

Luke 22:36 :)

A.E.T. ;)
 
Nah....mate. The darn thing would want to catch on everthing.
Hook knives are way to special purposed for general use and such.
 
You might want to check out the Microtech Lady Hawk. I don't have one, but supposedly it is quite a lethal knife. It is a bit small however.

You can usually trust that Microtech designs are quite suited to "useful" protective needs.
 
Actually, I like the opposite...meaning "banana" shaped blades...these are great for reverse-grip fighting styles as they allow you to "trap"...I especially like designs with "flesh-ripping" serrations on the top (they will cut when you trap and the person tries to withdraw).

A few examples :)

ba02140.jpg


ba02540.jpg


8c2set.jpg


RL
 
Two points.

A) I do not understand why people lump the Civilian, Matriarch, Cricket, and Meerkat in with the Harpy and Merlin. Two completely different blade shapes, as different as a recurve and a spear point, or a tanto and a drop point.

B) Just like everything else in knives, hawkbill blades offer a compromise. They allow you to do "pull cuts" far better than a traditional knife, even if they're not as good at slicing. They've got higher strong points and lower weak points than something like a spear point -- if the strong points match your uses, it's probably worth it.

With that said... I consider myself a pretty typical knife user, easy on the woodwork, heavy on the cardboard cutting. The best utility knife I have ever had, the only knife I can't see myself ever getting rid of only because it's that good a knife, is my Spyderco G-10 Harpy, serrated. The only time I have ever wished for a different blade shape is when I couldn't find a kitchen knife to half my sandwich -- and when I do have a more traditional blade shape, I find myself using a hawkbill often.

I don't think it's fair to say that hawkbills are too specialized for everyday use... it's all a matter of knowing how to use what you've got. Personally, I have trouble using... I guess drop point blades, like the Spyderco Pro-Grip or Wegner. The lack of a real, pronounced tip makes it very hard for me to do anything involving precision work. But I'm sure there's a guy out there who hunts a lot who has learned how to do absolutely everything with that blade shape.

I think it's really, when it comes to utility use, more a matter of technique than the limits of the shape... sure, in some cases, it matters, but I don't think it matters often enough or strongly enough for that to really be a factor... in this case, the only thing I don't think you could find a way to do is some kinds of carving, and you might even be able to do that...

As for SD use... well, I don't know. If you're going for scare factor, you've got in in spades. I've gotten a "most of your knives I don't mind, but that one, there's no good use except for killing people" reaction to my Harpy. If you're going for slashing, you've got that too -- it might get hooked up on stuff, but I'm not going to let you slash me to find out. If you're going for thrusting... eh, I don't know, maybe if you hold the knife and basically punch someone...

I'm just talking about the Harpy, though. Reverse S blades are a whole different deal. Of course, Allen, I'm sure I don't need to tell /you/ that a Cricket is a good utility knife...
 
I find that the Harpy and my LaGriffe are pretty well suited to a lot of utility tasks. Maybe some of the more exaggerated hawkbills aren't, but these work well for me. Plus, I think they are very easy to use/instinctive for SD. BTW, does anyone know if the G-10 Harpy is made in Plain edge?
 
I like both bananna and hawk blades. I had a Ladyhawk and liked it but never carried it hardly due to its small size/my uses/and other knives I had. I am now looking to get a MT Vector that is sort of a combo Hawk/tanto blade.

RL, no Pocket Hobbit in there! For shame! ;)
 
I am well aware that the Ladyhawk is MOD.

Edited: I see now that your comment was directed towards Jay Harley, not me. Sorry for the confusion.;)
 
Listen,

It's real simple, ask anyone who does it for a living, the fastest, most immediate, most authoritative fight stopping action one can take with a knife short of slitting a person's throat is to STAB them.
I don't want to sound like a sadist or anything, but slashes are far more subdual in terms of damage than a stab, and hawkbills and reverse "S" curved knives do not excell at stabbing, no matter how much you want to fantasize.
If the goal is to cause superficial, painful but mendable wounds, then a hawkbill type knife may be the way to go, if your goal is to end the conflict as fast as possible, accepting the risk of causing significant permanent damage or death on the resident bad guy, then get a good long Spear or Clip point and stab him 'til he quits.

And on that gruesome note... I shall go eat :)
 
Thanks for the expert advice. However, hawkbills are indeed useful for SD. For one they can be used effectively with relatively little training. Secondly, they excell at defanging the snake. Thirdly, you say to stab. What if the opening is not right for a stab? Fourthly, how many people have you cut/stabbed to make this assesment? Fifthly, hawkbills can indeed be used to stab. Their ability varies with the curvature of the blade. Sixthly, if you are more comfortable slashing as opposed to stabbing and have it in your head that you cannot effectively stab (whether that is right or wrong is not the point) then the slash IS your most effective move.

:p
 
Originally posted by one2gofst


RL, no Pocket Hobbit in there! For shame! ;)

I thought about that but isn't REKAT's site down? Also, the Pocket Hobbit is...ummm...a face that only a mother could love ;)

RL
 
Don't buy a civilian or matriarch for utility as you will probably break the tip off. It will also void the warrenty. As far as SD I would hate to think of the kind of cuts either of those knives would make. I think that as long as you can get the knife out and open with one hand you could use it for SD.
 
RL- what is the top bananna knife? it looks like a blade art photo, but who is the maker/model.
 
Regarding self defense: In my opinon is the advantage of such specialized blades, like the Spyderco Civilian model or contrarily a medieval stiletto, not worth the disadvantage of loosing the other attribute of a blade. A well designed fighting blade can both, stab and slash.
Look at the nature, in the long term the versatile, not the specialized animals survive!
 
For utility, there are a number of things I typically do that a hawkbill would work well on. I've long considered getting an Emerson LaGriffe for this reason. There also things a hawkbill wouldn't work well on, so I'd still keep my regular knife as well.

For defensive use, I don't want to give up the ability to thrust, so I stay away from hawkbills. I've thought of picking up a curved blade, hawkbill or matriarch, to supplement a straight blade in some cases.

I guess for me, the conclusion is, these curved blades might be nice supplements to a regular blade, but not a substitute.

Joe
 
While a Hawkbill/hooked knife is not my first choice for self defense, I think selling them short is foolish.
In a small knife, like the La Griffe, slashing is intended, and in such a knife, has its advantages, fast, no blade seen, and wham, pain, blood, WTF?... But you can also stab with it too, but its not going to go all that much deeper than the slash, is it? (Well, I wouldnt know, its hypothesis on my part. I dont own one, yet... so like I said, hypothesis.)

To shut someone down, ideally you stab, you thrust into their body and shut down their processor by cutting it off (pun not intended) from the vitals the keep it alive. We know this.
But that doesnt mean a slash cant do damage, and cant be fatal... because it can.

Your main arm or the weapon (pistol) in it, is being held by an attacker... and he is about to get that gun away from you, you have a Spyderco Harpy in your weak side pocket, you whip it out and slash his arm with that sharp serrated blade, thats gonna hurt, thats gonna go deep, cut fat and muscle, and veins, and nerves, and make him bleed.... unless he is insane or on angel dust, its very likely he will let go!
Sure, this can be done with any-knife, but think about how well a hawk-bill would fit the curvature of an arm... and in a situation like this, a good slash, is going to do more damage than stabbing (poking) him in the arm with the knife.

Put that little Harpy blade into reverse grip, and turn it up, hidden behind your arm. You throw what looks like an odd punch, and the next thing your attacker knows is whatever got in the way has a painful, bloody, cut in it... and where the effing hell did it come from, he didnt see no knife... but bingo, sure enough it was there.

I have experiance with a Harpy, I used to own and carry a G-10 handled model.... out of all the knives I've gotten rid of, its the one I regret the most.
It dissapeared into a pocket, didnt know it was there, until you needed it. It was comfortable int he hand, it opening smooth, regular opening, spyder-dropping, using my ring finger top open it into reverse grip.
Closed, it hid in the hand amazingly well... but would come open in a flash.

And for anyone who thinks a hawk-bill wont work for utility, carry a harpy, and nothing but, for a month... you will see it is truly very useful.
I realize a Civillian or a Matriarch arent design for this, but a more utilitarian blade, such as the Harpy will take this kind of work, and yet is an excellent defensive knife.

Wicked slashes, easily concealed until just the right moment and then *bam*, and utility able... with good ergonomics, and excellent fit and finish. The G-10 Harpy was a good little knife.

Now, even if not utility capable, the hawk-bill is still an awesome defensive tool... No, its not a stabber, but it slashes like mad, point goes in, and wants to go deep, and then as the ark of the slash moves on, its ripped out again... leaving deep wide wound.

Not my first choice, but I wouldnt feel under-"gunned" with just a hawk-bill... and its definatly an excellent back-up to other weapons, main knife, or a firearm. A great weak-side folder (or fixed blade to those inclined.)

Years ago, in certain area's, more traditional Hawkbills were the weapon of choice for many, and they were feared for their effectiveness.

The thrust kills, of course... but so does a slash.

Dont write off the hawk-bill as "useless"... its not, far from it.

[Edited to add the following thoughts:]Think about the naturally occuring shape of the claws on predators that make use of their claws to kill... big cats and bears bot have Hooked/Hawkbill shaped claws, and they can kill with them, with slashing basically. (I realize a griz or a mountain lion has a lot more force behind his "slash" when he slaps youw ith his paw, but the principle is still there), and such predatory beasts that have such hooked sharp claws, use them to kill. Thousands of years of killing for survival, using hook shaped sharp claws... yet we as humans doubt a steel hooked shaped claw? Am I missing something? *confused*

And, while I know this is mall ninja fantasy/arm chair commando stuff for most everyone here (me too) a hawk-bill has its place in "offensive" knife work, and it seems to me it has earned such a place, through being "proven" effective.
 
Back
Top