Horizontal Grinder Building - Thinking it through...

Ken H> said:
Brock, nobody had responded to your question about 1800 vs 3600 rpm motor. If price where the same, I'd go with 1800 rpm for the horizontal grinder. From your discussion it seems you're not planning to hog with the grinder, but use it same as I will, low rpm and low torque requirements, hence the 1hp motor. With a 4" drive wheel and 1800 you'll be running around 2,000 sfpm belt speed which should be just fine. I went with 1-1/2 hp - don't think I'll need that much power, and on reflection maybe I should have went with 1800 rpm 1hp motor. The cost of a 1 hp, 1800 rpm motor is only $11 more than the 3600 rpm 1-1/2 hp motor so I did get the 1-1/2 hp motor.

Not considering the price, I'd go with 1800 rpm.
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Thanks Ken for the confirmation. That is what I am going to do. Ordering tomorrow.
 
This is an awesome thread. Here is where Im at so far with my design.
dwvOowr.jpg
 
timos- said:
This is an awesome thread. Here is where Im at so far with my design.
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Interesting design Tim. So do you have a plan as far as the small wheel, replacing it with a larger wheel if needed? Otherwise won't you be tied to a pretty slow belt speed?
And you are building it on a wood work bench? I've seen that done on Youtube.
 
I have 4'x2' table I made with a 1/2" sheet of plywood as a surface. On top of that Ive got a 1/2" thick sheet of Acetal. I plan to mount everything directly to the table; mounting the motor and pulley underneath on the right side so I have access to switch the ratios. The small wheel will be attached directly to Brett's small wheel attachment (I purchased from him a while back) with a 2" wheel on the other side so I can easily flip it around.
 
OK, the 2" small wheel will allow running at speeds you'd want for a horizontal grinder I'd think.

Tim, is there a reason you have the tracking wheel separate from tension wheel? Seems like the tracking wheel wouldn't be good for grinding since it won't always be exact same angle. By putting tension/tracking wheel the same would allow putting a 4" grinding wheel where you now show the tracking wheel. Then put a 3" wheel where you show the 2" and with a 2" wheel in the small wheel attachment you've got a selection of 2", 3", or 4" wheels to grind on. Then when you do need a smaller wheel, you can switch out the 2" wheel on the small wheel attachment for size desired.

I'm sure your tension adjustment will have plenty of travel to provide tension for any diameter small wheel without having to change anything.
 
A little update for me. I've been thinking about this wheel layout and how to execute it for weeks now, and finally decided that the parts for the Beaumont H grinder will cover me well enough for what I want to do.
I've ordered their drive, tracking, and small wheel setups. I got my motor and controller last week. So I might actually be able to start my build this weekend.
So my based in .65 6061 AL plate at 17 x 17 inches. This is more than enough to run a 72 inch belt.
Once I get this all together and functioning I just need to figure out my work rests, which I intend to be pretty highly configurable, within reason. I figure full height, distance, and angle to the belt are what I need. 45 deg tilt should suffice for me. Dedicated 3 and 2 inch wheels, platen, and small wheel, so 4 work rests. Platen and small wheel rests are priority.
I'll be mounting mine off the bench, something like the AMK H grinder.
 
This is what I think the final wheel layout is going to be. The left front wheel should be interchangeable from 2, 3, and 4 inches. The right wheel should go up to perhaps 6, but not sure I will go that big with it.
This is using the Beaumont drive wheel (4"), Tracking Wheel, and small wheel assemblies. I could have built my own perhaps, but this was the easy way to go for sure.
It is interesting to note that those with the Beaumont H grinder could probably mod to this with little cost, and a moderate amount of work and have a full blown and more versatile 72" grinder.

H-Grinder-72X-1.jpg H-Grinder-72X-2.jpg
 
I'm interested in how that tracking mechanism works for you. It doesn't appear as if it will impart much angularity change to the tracking wheel given the length of the arm. So will the simple height adjustment bring the belt up/down? Layout looks good too.
 
kuraki said:
I'm interested in how that tracking mechanism works for you. It doesn't appear as if it will impart much angularity change to the tracking wheel given the length of the arm. So will the simple height adjustment bring the belt up/down? Layout looks good too.
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Thanks John. I am wondering about that tracking too. I can change it around so the pivot is closer to the wheel, but will take some engineering, so I'll try it as is first. I will keep this thread updated though.
 
Brock Cutlery said:
Thanks John. I am wondering about that tracking too. I can change it around so the pivot is closer to the wheel, but will take some engineering, so I'll try it as is first. I will keep this thread updated though.
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It will work flawless .Just be sure to drill and cut thread right in any hole .It s thick AL plate and they are very true .If you build everything right , and you perfectly alignment all wheels you will need very little tracking adjustment . . . .. . At least that is my experience with one plate build grinders...
 
I agree with Natlek - that tracking wheel will work just fine. I made one very similar (copied from photo) and it works pretty good.

Natlek - since it was on this thread you said I could have issues with belt slippage using a 3" drive wheel - you were CORRECT. With the bare aluminum wheel the amount of slippage surprised me, especially when the 1/2" (and 1") small wheels where installed allowing the belt to have less pressure. I put a rubber covering over the drive wheel and seems to prevent any slippage.

I used a 3/4" wide rubber electrical tape to cover the wheel and it seems to work pretty good. Thanks for the input of belt slippage.

Ken H>
 
Part of me wonders if clearance around the small wheel will be an issue on longer pieces?
 
knife to a gunfight said:
Part of me wonders if clearance around the small wheel will be an issue on longer pieces?
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I wonder too Drew. There is always the potential that there will be more leeway for big pieces on the outside edge only. But I don't want it to be cramped on the inside. Trying to work that out now. I have the front two wheels drilled and mounted and am still playing with the rear wheel arrangement.
Current Concerns:
  • There is clearance for the small wheel. The bracket makes this one stand higher off the plate than all others, so I have to figure that out.
  • Clearance for the tracking wheel and piston. This one also stands higher than the two front wheels, but not quite as high as the small wheel.
  • Clearance for the motor itself and enough belt wrap around the drive wheel that slippage isn't a big problem.
This whole thing is quite an engineering task, especially for my experience level.

I can angle the small wheel out over the edge a bit without much trouble I think. I don't plan to have a platen on every flat side so would just have to work out the proper work rest.

What do you you all think?

H-Grinder-72X-3.jpg
 
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Brock Cutlery said:
This is what I think the final wheel layout is going to be. The left front wheel should be interchangeable from 2, 3, and 4 inches. The right wheel should go up to perhaps 6, but not sure I will go that big with it.
This is using the Beaumont drive wheel (4"), Tracking Wheel, and small wheel assemblies. I could have built my own perhaps, but this was the easy way to go for sure.
It is interesting to note that those with the Beaumont H grinder could probably mod to this with little cost, and a moderate amount of work and have a full blown and more versatile 72" grinder.

View attachment 945520 View attachment 945521
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You have crown on drive wheel and on tracking wheel ? Why ? I believe guys who says that they will fight each other .... That crown on drive wheel is huge .......will deform belts quickly ? Very ,very little crown on tracking wheel is all you need for tracking on well build grinder .
In my plans for build I try to keep everything under table ....up only wheels .
 
Natlek said:
You have crown on drive wheel and on tracking wheel ? Why ? I believe guys who says that they will fight each other .... That crown on drive wheel is huge .......will deform belts quickly ? Very ,very little crown on tracking wheel is all you need for tracking on well build grinder .
In my plans for build I try to keep everything under table ....up only wheels .
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I am trusting Beaumont's experience on the crowned wheels. If it doesn't work out then will try something else.
This is going to be a huge learning experience.
 
I like the last configuration the best. Natlek is correct about belt deformation, but that's not so much a concern as wheel wear. Machine the crown off the drive wheel, and switch the two platen wheels so the larger is closer to the tracking. It will then take the brunt of the crowned belt pressure, and because it rotates slower should wear less. You might even want to consider making it a metal wheel instead of coated.
I also read that guys were having issues with the Beaumont tracking on their horizontals in the past. I now see the reason why. The only thing that maintains tracking wheel height is gravity and the mass of a lightweight tracking arm and wheel. Unlike on a vertical grinder where gravity AND belt tension pull the tracking wheel hinge against the adjustment screw.
If you end up with belts being driven down into the plate put a dial indicator on the face of the tracking arm while running and see if it's lifting up.
 
mike-E said:
I like the last configuration the best. Natlek is correct about belt deformation, but that's not so much a concern as wheel wear. Machine the crown off the drive wheel, and switch the two platen wheels so the larger is closer to the tracking. It will then take the brunt of the crowned belt pressure, and because it rotates slower should wear less. You might even want to consider making it a metal wheel instead of coated.
I also read that guys were having issues with the Beaumont tracking on their horizontals in the past. I now see the reason why. The only thing that maintains tracking wheel height is gravity and the mass of a lightweight tracking arm and wheel. Unlike on a vertical grinder where gravity AND belt tension pull the tracking wheel hinge against the adjustment screw.
If you end up with belts being driven down into the plate put a dial indicator on the face of the tracking arm while running and see if it's lifting up.
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It does seem that gravity is going to be a bigger influence than on a vertical grinder, but then when you flip a vertical you have the same issues, and they seem to track ok, right?

In a serious production shop the wheel wear might be an issue. I don't think it will be for me. I guess a prod shop would just consider wheels another consumable.
You have a lot of experience with this Mike? Regarding the drive wheel and wear? I'd like to hear details if you would. It's all new to me pretty much.
 
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