Both Kydex and leather have properties that cannot be claimed by the other, some good, some not so good. In this thread, retention seems to be a large factor, and that is good as it fosters discussion. It does make one wonder about the "retention" in sheaths prior to Kydex, though, does it not? When a man's life depended on his knife on a nearly daily basis, where was Kydex, Concealex, nylon and other assorted synthetics? I agree with Paul on this issue in all aspects.
Reidracer made some rather positive statements that were pro Kydex and con leather. I do not believe he can back up his statements as to his stated properties of either one. That Paul should find this a little irritating has me agreeing with him. I think both materials should be touted for the advantages they offer and not slandered because of personal preference. ---Sandy---
Let's back up here for a minute....
It's more than a bit presumptuous on your part to think you can speak of my personal preferences as I have never stated them.
I make 250+ sheaths a WEEK, both leather and Kydex so I can assure you that I can back up whatever I say with factual information.
Let's start by talking about backing up statements about stated properties of Kydex and Leather.
I said “When leather becomes as stiff as kydex it cracks, nothing you can do to prevent it because it's a fibrous material.”
What part of that don't you agree with? Ever see an old sheath? The leather dries out, gets stiff and cracks. Over harden leather and you have the same thing. Leather is hardened by submersing it in hot water which breaks down the fibers of the leather so they can reform into a harder material. That's how leather armor was made centuries ago. The trade off for hardness is brittleness and when the old armor was flexed it would crack. Not opinion, FACT.
I've done it with thin leather, trying to develop thin lightweight sheaths from leather. The balance point is far too precarious for me to further explore the concept as a production method so it's been set aside.
I further stated: “Kydex is rubber/plastic based so it's very hard while still flexible.”
According to Kleerdex, the people who make Kydex it is a PolyVinyl Thermoplastic sheet. All you need to do is hold a piece of Kydex to recognize that it is hard and still flexible, that's why people use it for sheaths.
I believe I just did back up my statements with FACTUAL information.
"When a man's life depended on his knife on a nearly daily basis, where was Kydex, Concealex, nylon and other assorted synthetics?"
It wasn't yet invented, nor was the "Loveless Cam Lock." Sheaths were an entirely different story back then, retention wasn't a concern as people tended to trust gravity to do the job of holding a knife in place and only idiots expected that an inverted sheath would retain a knife. Times change and along with them go technology and expectations.
The discussion was about a horizontal sheath and I stated that I don't trust horizontal sheaths made of leather to retain the knife. I don't recall ever seeing a Loveless made sheath setup for horizontal carry, I wonder why?
Now to the brass tacks,
The Loveless Cam Lock isn't black magic, it's basic sheath design. I know, I've build hundreds of sheaths using the principle.
The retention in Loveless style sheaths doesnt have anything to do with the stiffness of the leather. Rather its the stiffness of the welt. Last time I checked the welt was made of LEATHER, not some mystery material. When leather is saturated with water it becomes almost putty like, that's the basis behind carving leather.
Take the most perfectly fitted Loveless Cam Lock sheath, get it good and wet and work with the knife a bit and you'll move the bump on the cam out of place and the cam lock will cease to work as effectively as it did when new. You may not like the facts but that doesn't change them.
I demand that the sheaths I make stand the test of time, working perfectly in the shop is only the beginning, after it's been in the field for a couple of years it still needs to do the job.
I make both leather AND Kydex, when long term retention is the specification it's Kydex; when tradition and warmth is the concern it'll be leather. To close your eyes to one material or the other is doing yourself a disservice as you are limited to the capabilities of the product you prefer.
