How can I tell if a blade is properly heat treated/tempered or not..?

R

riderV3

Joined
Nov 29, 2010
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Hopefully the knife-making talents out there can offer me some tips.

Long story short I've made a leap of faith and bought from a relatively unknown custom knife maker...

So is there a way to tell if the knife maker's properly heat-treated/tempered his blades? He uses D-2 if that helps...

I've heard something like to run the edge on a brass rod to see if the edge would flex or something of that nature...

Thanks in advance!
 
Without destroying the blade or putting a dent in it, I'd say the best bet is to find out the details of his heat treating process. What made you have doubts?
 
riderV3 said:
Hopefully the knife-making talents out there can offer me some tips.

Long story short I've made a leap of faith and bought from a relatively unknown custom knife maker...

So is there a way to tell if the knife maker's properly heat-treated/tempered his blades? He uses D-2 if that helps...

I've heard something like to run the edge on a brass rod to see if the edge would flex or something of that nature...

Thanks in advance!
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Welcome to Bladeforums, glad to have you here.

To really tell? Is to check with a hardness tester, this would tell you how hard the steel is on the Rc. scale?
D2 is a very good knife steel, hope you enjoy the new knife.

.
 
I order to really tell, he would have to destroy the blade and get analysis done. Hardness testing is useful if the heat treating process is trusted. The hardness test is basically to double check your instruments and verify your process gave the expected results.

Since he has doubts about the heat treating process, I don't think that even seeing the number is helpful, because one can hit the final hardness target on D2 without doing it "right"
 
AcridSaint said:
Without destroying the blade or putting a dent in it, I'd say the best bet is to find out the details of his heat treating process. What made you have doubts?
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It's just the nature of his custom work, for privacy purpose I will no disclose his name but his works tend to have more aesthetic features than functional features so eventhought I like his stuff I fear it's going to be Gill Hibben all over again...

bigal2me said:
Welcome to Bladeforums, glad to have you here.

To really tell? Is to check with a hardness tester, this would tell you how hard the steel is on the Rc. scale?
D2 is a very good knife steel, hope you enjoy the new knife.

.
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Thanks for the welcome!

So I assume the hardness tester is only available in a professional setting...
 
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A lot of makers have RC testers. They will leave a dent in your knife, as I mentioned above.

I don't know what "going Gil Hibben all over again" means.
 
AcridSaint said:
I order to really tell, he would have to destroy the blade and get analysis done. Hardness testing is useful if the heat treating process is trusted. The hardness test is basically to double check your instruments and verify your process gave the expected results.

Since he has doubts about the heat treating process, I don't think that even seeing the number is helpful, because one can hit the final hardness target on D2 without doing it "right"
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I would "HOPE" the maker did it properly? :confused::eek:

But than again, you never know? right?...... ;):rolleyes::D
 
AcridSaint said:
I order to really tell, he would have to destroy the blade and get analysis done. Hardness testing is useful if the heat treating process is trusted. The hardness test is basically to double check your instruments and verify your process gave the expected results.

Since he has doubts about the heat treating process, I don't think that even seeing the number is helpful, because one can hit the final hardness target on D2 without doing it "right"
Click to expand...


I tried not to ask/confront the knife maker but looks like that's my best bet.

Oooor if one day that blade breaks into pieces I can probably infer that the treating process wasn't solid...
 
AcridSaint said:
I don't know what "going Gil Hibben all over again" means.
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I think we all remember how his radical looking blades swept the market, but in the end because of poor production quality everything tumbled down.
It's not exactly his fault but since then I've made a mental association between cool-looking blade and poor quality...
 
riderV3 said:
I tried not to ask/confront the knife maker but looks like that's my best bet.

Oooor if one day that blade breaks into pieces I can probably infer that the treating process wasn't solid...
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You MUST talk to a knifemaker about his processes... and it really should have been done prior to purchasing the blade. I love it when folks ask me about my heat treat. If a maker ever gets put off by you asking or says it's a "trade secret" and can't tell you, WALK AWAY. That is like buying a sportscar without knowing what's under the hood. Steel type alone doesn't tell you much. One of my favorite quotes on this forum goes something like this... "God, himeslf could descend from the heavens and place the perfect bar of steel in your arms and it would only ever be as good as the heat treat you give it." I'm not a spiritual man, but that pretty much sums it up.

Rick
 
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None of Gil's customs have been of questionable quality, to the best of my knowledge. Not an apples to apples comparison to use the Chinese production models that United licensed. I think they were properly heat treated, for 420 steel :)
 
Before you purchase a blade, simply ask the maker how he tests is blades, what you can expect when you use them and what kind of guarantee does he offer.
 
Rick Marchand said:
You MUST talk to a knifemaker about his processes... and it really should have been done prior to purchasing the blade. I love it when folks ask me about my heat treat. If a maker ever gets put off by you asking or says it's a "trade secret" and can't tell you, WALK AWAY. That is like buying a sportscar without knowing what's under the hood. Steel type alone doesn't tell you much. One of my favorite quotes on this forum goes something like this... "God, himeslf could descend from the heavens and place the perfect bar of steel in your arms and it would only ever be as good as the heat treat you give it." I'm not a spiritual man, but that pretty much sums it up.

Rick
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Ed Fowler said:
Before you purchase a blade, simply ask the maker how he tests is blades, what you can expect when you use them and what kind of guarantee does he offer.
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Thanks for the very constructive suggestions, will certainly be more careful next time around.
 
Many custom makers send out their blades to very good heat treaters. Some can do a great heat treat at their shop. Does your blade seem too soft, too brittle, do you know what RC hardness the maker was seeking? If you feel it is under performing, talk to the maker. He would want to know about any issue so he could adjust or correct any problems and will want you to be satisfied. Most custom knives have much better heat treatment than larger manufactured knives. D.
D
 
Maybe I'm oversimplifying this but;

  • If the knife is a collector or show piece, put a coat of Renaissance wax and enjoy the view. Heat treat won't matter much
  • If the knife is a user, you'll pretty quick if it was heat treated appropriately for your use. Either you'll be happy with it's performance or not. If it doesn't perform to your expectations, that gives you a pretty good reason to sit down with the maker over a coffee and ask him about his heat treating practices and what you should be able to expect from the knife.
If it's D2, it should perform most tasks very nicely with good durability.

You could mention you were showing off the knife to a friend who asked about heat treat - and that got you curious too.

Rob!
 
I just send my knives off to the pros to be HT'd that way I know its done right, and when I am asked about my HT I just say it was done by Rob so it must be right:p
 
Rick Marchand said:
I love it when folks ask me about my heat treat. If a maker ever gets put off by you asking or says it's a "trade secret" and can't tell you, WALK AWAY.
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Spot on. I don't do my own HT (yet?) and I have no problem telling folks who does it for me, and why.
 
I agree with talking to the maker. An RC tester will tell you how hard,
but, not grain size or many other factors.

I will say this as someone who uses a lot of D2. If I were going to pick a steel to make pretty knives and not worry much about doing a solid HT, D2 would NOT be the steel I would use. It is hard to grind, hard to get a fine finish on. There are other steels that finish way easier and if worried mostly about looks I would pick one of those.

I do my own HT, I have made a nice oven, I follow a tested HT procedure, I test each blade with an RC tester. I pay attention to heat when I grind after the HT. If someone doesn't like my knife's performance I will take it back.
 
Rick Marchand said:
You MUST talk to a knifemaker about his processes... and it really should have been done prior to purchasing the blade. I love it when folks ask me about my heat treat. If a maker ever gets put off by you asking or says it's a "trade secret" and can't tell you, WALK AWAY. That is like buying a sportscar without knowing what's under the hood. Steel type alone doesn't tell you much. One of my favorite quotes on this forum goes something like this... "God, himeslf could descend from the heavens and place the perfect bar of steel in your arms and it would only ever be as good as the heat treat you give it." I'm not a spiritual man, but that pretty much sums it up.

Rick
Click to expand...

Great information Rick. As a new maker I have been trying to do everything openly and even publicly by posting WIP's.
 
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