How does a carbidizer work?

RUGUR

RUGUR

Joined
Jun 4, 2005
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I would like to build my own homemade Carbidizer but I need help please. I hope to hear from people who own a carbidizer and people who have a knowledge of electronics.
I don't know what is inside a carbidizer and I am not really very knowledgeable about electronics, but I think if I can figure it out I can probably buy some electronic components and put all together myself for less money.
If you own a carbidizer, please share any information about it that you can. I would like to know what the labels and other documentation says.
travers.com sells a carbidizer for $200(item number 57-101-000)
Apparently the machine uses a tungsten carbide electrode and an electrical current to fuse carbides onto other materials. I want to use this for working on liner-lock or frame-lock knives and other things.
I have a variable 0-130V AC/DC power supply. Can I use my power supply the way it is or is there something I can build that will allow me to use my variable power supply as a carbidizer?
Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks!
 
I have one from Travers. It is dirt simple to use. Basically it plates carbide. Sounds like a buzz box when it is in use. The cabide plating on lock faces pretty much eliminates wear. I have been using a broken carbide micro-drill, the kind you can buy a box full for not much money. Much cheaper than the "special" ones that Travers sells for it. Been using the same one for a long time. You don't use much of it to plate a lock face. Makes the lock smoother, especially if you are using titanium for the lock.
Not sure what is inside. I will take a look tomorrow when I go out to the shop.
Chip Kunkle
 
Judging from the pictures, and if kunklec can post pictures of the real deal, I would say it's a dremel engraver with a flattened engraver bit which pounds against the part to be "plated" creating many arcs per second "welding" whatever material the little bit is made out of to the part.

My assumption is based on the fact that a little add I saw had a dremel engraver pictured infront of what looks like a simple transformer. The process sounds like hardfacing in the welding industry, but without much heat. So I have to guess it puts down small amounts at a time.
 
Is it true that the carbide electrode oscillates up and down like the point of an engraving tool?

Thank you for the help. This is great :)
 
Unfortunately the little bastard box it's hooked up to is hermetically sealed, so without busting mine apart, I have no way to know what's inside.
I'm not gonna tear aprt my $200 machine.
I really want one that's "badder" though, like Warren Thomas uses.
He says he can actually burn through a piecs of Ti with his if he isn't careful...

Mine appears to be a vibratory engraver modified with whatever is in the "magic box" to deposit small points of Carbide, just like 65535 guessed.
A million little arcs, each one leaving a small carbide deposit.

I've always guessed that the box is a transformer of some sort that allows the engraver to operate normally, but also sends an insulated current to the electrode...
Just a wild guess though.

Let's figure this out, as I'd like to build a better one.

by the way, they work better with a broken micro-drill than with the standard electrode like Kunklec mentioned.
 
I checked mine, and as Brian sid, it's a sealed unit. The handpiece is just a vibrator engraver, You can adjust the stroke, creating very small points of deposit. No way to adjust the current. It works well, not sure why more power would be of any help. For lock faces, it only takes a few seconds to plate both faces. Takes longer to find the plug. I took a picture, but there is little to see that is not in the add.
Chip Kunkle
 

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Thanks for the help!
I can't make out all of the information that is written on the label. Could somebody please clarify this?
It says:

TUNG CARB

ELECTRONIC HARD SURFACER
FOR USE WITH
TU ELECTRODES (TUNGSTEN)
TI ELECTRODES (TITANIUM)

110 \ ?0-?0 CY. 60 WATTS **This info was hard to read and may be incorrect**

BEBE MANUFACTURING CO.
WEIRSDALE, FL 32695
 
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Would this thing be using AC or DC current?
I'm thinking that I will do an experiment tonight. I'll hook up a carbide drillbit to use as my electrode and see if I can get any results.
Maybe I don't need the automatic hammering action of an engraving-tool. Maybe I can make a more manual type of tool that can be struck with a hammer.
 
RUGUR said:
Would this thing be using AC or DC current?
I'm thinking that I will do an experiment tonight. I'll hook up a carbide drillbit to use as my electrode and see if I can get any results.
Maybe I don't need the automatic hammering action of an engraving-tool. Maybe I can make a more manual type of tool that can be struck with a hammer.
Click to expand...

Maybe the reciprocating action is so that the point at which the tip is electrified is momentary, so as not to hurt anyone holding it. I.e. a safety feature. I'm also guessing that without the recip. action you wouldn't have a stop-gap against sticking your electrode to your work, or does this device not carry that danger?

Second, the marked indicated by "?" would be where the 50 / 60 cycles mark would go, indicating AC, are you sure you are up to this? No disrepect intended. And it looks more like a 6 or an 8 on watts. I can't make out a second digit at all.
 
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I am up for purchasing some electrical components and soldering them all together. But no, I don't have a very thorough knowledge of electronics. I don't know what I'm doing, I'm here to get help and instructions. I believe that I could possibly be successful with help. Luckily there are people like you here, who are more knowledgeable than me.

If the reciprocating motion wasn't necessary, then perhaps I could add some sort of electrical component that would rapidly switch the current on and off.
 
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I would think the reciprocation would facilitate transfer of carbide by rapidly making/breaking contact with the surface (sparking)-very much like arc welding.
 
My guess is that it is DC. Someone who has one, please borrow a voltmeter and measure your volts between the alligator clip and the point. The vibration is to facilitate arcing

-Page
 
The basic principal is this:
The vibrator creates a repeated arc between the work (cathode) and the carbide tip (anode). The arc is briefly a plasma gas, and allows the anode to "anodize" onto the cathode. The amount is minute, but the repeated process slowly creates a thin layer. It only needs to be a few microns to make the surface coated. The power supply would be DC, and the control circuit would be regulated by current. It probably is moderately HV, but low current. Too much current and it will become a cutting tool, burning the cathode.
Stacy
 
Thank you for explaining that Stacy. I appreciate it :)
I ran some tests last night and I what I observed is consistent with what Stacy said. I used DC power with a carbide drillbit as the anode. My variable power supply is unregulated and it consists of a variac and a bridge rectifier. My cathode was a piece of 6/4 titanium. I had my variac turned all the way up. When I touched the carbide to the titanium there was a bright spark, like I see when I am grinding titanium. Every time I did this, it blew the fuse on my variac. The spark left a tiny mark on my titanium. I looked at the mark under magnification. The mark was about .04" in diameter and looked like a crater. The center of the crater looked as if it was indented below the surface of the titanium, but the edges of the crater were raised above the surface slightly. I scraped at the crater and surrounding area with a broken carbide drillbit to try and determine if there was any carbide deposited. I couldn't really tell if there was carbide on the titanium. The crater did seem to be harder than the surrounding metal, but I have experienced work-hardening in titanium before and that could be the cause of the crater appearing to be harder.
Since the crater cuts down into the titanium, I must be using too much current and that is cutting my titanium.
I have been told that it would be too expensive to convert my power supply to be regulated. Is that true or is there an affordable solution? Could I use my unregulated power supply, but just limit the current somehow?
If I can not use my power supply, are there any affordable, commercially available products that I could adapt to use for these purposes? Sunshadow mentioned that the power-pack that comes with the Travers carbidizer looks like a motorcycle battery charger. But I am guessing that a battery-charger might be too low voltage. I know I could string a bunch of car batteries together to make a regulated power supply, but having a bunch of car batteries sitting around doesn't sound very appealing and I would still have to figure out how to limit the current.
Please keep the advice coming. Thank you.
 
The thing you need is a regulated amperage ( like a crowbar circuit). The voltage can probably be over a fair range, but the current should not be much, or you will be punching craters in the metal instead of anodizing carbide on it.
Stacy
 
Ran into "Carbidizer" by accicdent and have to question it's validity considering it's not really commonly found as wear reducing tool-it's only sold a couple of places and is definatly a dremmel tool engraver modified with a sketchy power supply. Couldn't common plating or metalizing tools do the same thing just much much better.
 
good morning to all,
I am new to the fourms but I am the owner of BEBE manufacturing, we have been building the carbidizers for over 40 years. we are new to the knife industry and would like to help with any questions you might have. regarding our product. don't want this to turn into an ad for our product. but will try to answer any questions you have.
happy holidays. doug
 
Hi Doug, and welcome to the Blade Forums. It's a friendly place. I'm wanting to find out things like where can I get a say 3 1/2" folder blade done and how much would it cost me? Thanks Frank
 
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