I just purchased a semi custom kinfe from a fairly new bladesmith. Only thing is he's not set up to make and forge his own blade steel yet, so he's using mail order blanks. He said the blade steel he uses is made and forged in Japan of 420J-2 steel with a RC scale of 55-58. On this particular piece, I'd go with the higher end of the rating as it doesn't seem very easy to sharpen. The fit&finish of the knife is of excellent quality, just wondering about the durabilty and quality of the steel.
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How Good Is 420J-2 Steel???
- Thread starter jtallant
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Not too great in the durability or quality areas. It really depends on what you're using the knife for IMO. Though there are much better steels out there, if you don't mind sharpening often and aren't planning on using it too hard, I don't see any reason you'd be that bad off. If you do plan on using it hard at all I'd say you may want to keep it for a desk knife or something like that. In short, 420-J2 isn't known for anything but below par knives here in the knife communtiy, but like I said it's all in how you use it.
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It is a lower grade steel with respect to edge retention and durability. However, 420-J2 is highly stain resistant. Many dive knives use this material in a marine environment. Not the best choice for marine (H1 is better), but that steel does have some strengths.
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It's good. . . for liners in a folder.
It is among the worst blade steels.
It is among the worst blade steels.
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It's all in the heat treatment. You'll find higher grade steels with an RC scale of 55-58, so what's wrong with that hardness? Granted, 420j2 doesn't have many fans, but how is the knife going to be used? Is it to be a knife for casual use? A knife for average everyday cutting tasks or is it going to be a "Safe Queen" just to be admired? Is it going to be a purely defensive knife or will it be a knife to be used constantly at work or in the field?
If you plan to use the knife casually, then 420j2 will do fine. If you plan to make it your primary EDC knife, then it would make sense to seek a knife with better edge holding abilities. Keep in mind, however, that while most people want a knife that can hold an edge, you also don't want one that will be difficult to sharpen. On the other hand, if the knife is just going to be looked at, admired and carried just because it looks cool then it really doesn't matter what steel it has if one is too afraid to use it for fear of scratching it's finish.
If you plan to use the knife casually, then 420j2 will do fine. If you plan to make it your primary EDC knife, then it would make sense to seek a knife with better edge holding abilities. Keep in mind, however, that while most people want a knife that can hold an edge, you also don't want one that will be difficult to sharpen. On the other hand, if the knife is just going to be looked at, admired and carried just because it looks cool then it really doesn't matter what steel it has if one is too afraid to use it for fear of scratching it's finish.
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I use a cheap knife at work that does have 420-J2 cuz' it happens to fit my needs and circumstances. I do not mind loaning it to someone. I have light cutting needs and it is OK for that. It just happens to work for me ... but ... I am very selective on all of my other knife choices and 420-J2 is't my "steel of choice" practically ever.
WOOK
WOOK
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It's working out pretty well on my zdp calypso 
I hate to say this but I have CRTK Rollock 2 in 420J2.
All I can say for a $10 knife it is sharp.(enough to shave paper)
And when it dulls, I run it a couple of times over a extra-fine DMT.
Neither a knife or a blade I would want to stress test.
But pleasantly suprised by how sharp it gets, and how easy it is to maintain.
Neeman
All I can say for a $10 knife it is sharp.(enough to shave paper)
And when it dulls, I run it a couple of times over a extra-fine DMT.
Neither a knife or a blade I would want to stress test.
But pleasantly suprised by how sharp it gets, and how easy it is to maintain.
Neeman
Cliff Stamp
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420J2 is limited to about 54/56 HRC which puts it about 3-4 HRC points behind most custom knives. This is enough to make a difference but not nearly as much as has been noted in the above. It is for example far harder than a lot of large working blades and well respected ABS members like Fisk have softer blades which would not be so disrespected obviously.
420J2 is a low carbide steel so it would work best in high polished edges where you wanted a high initial sharpness. Since it has a low carbide volume don't expect long term edge retention for slicing abrasive media. However you can compensate for this by adjusting edge finish and angle.
You can see quantitative discussion of this in the reviews.
-Cliff
420J2 is a low carbide steel so it would work best in high polished edges where you wanted a high initial sharpness. Since it has a low carbide volume don't expect long term edge retention for slicing abrasive media. However you can compensate for this by adjusting edge finish and angle.
You can see quantitative discussion of this in the reviews.
-Cliff
I only paid $60 and as I stated before, its just a semi custom with a mail order blade of which was manufactured in Seki Japan (wherever that is). I haven't used it much or started any testing. But it is a 3.5inch drop point hunting/skinning knife. It will be used ocassionally for said camping/hunting duties, as I have other more specific knifes for personal carry or heavy use.
I agree with Cosmic, that some low quality Chinese imports have burned alot of people on this steel as they never seem to be heat treated well enough. But my unscientific study of the blade I have says its not some soft ass Chinese crap. And i do believe the knife maker on its somewhat decent quality, as he never said "it's the best" only that he wanted to try his hand at perfecting his craft at a decent price before jumping into more expensive steels.
Sure, it would be nice if every newcomer to the trade could afford s30v, ATS-34 or AUS-8 but most can't.
Here's a pic:
I agree with Cosmic, that some low quality Chinese imports have burned alot of people on this steel as they never seem to be heat treated well enough. But my unscientific study of the blade I have says its not some soft ass Chinese crap. And i do believe the knife maker on its somewhat decent quality, as he never said "it's the best" only that he wanted to try his hand at perfecting his craft at a decent price before jumping into more expensive steels.
Sure, it would be nice if every newcomer to the trade could afford s30v, ATS-34 or AUS-8 but most can't.
Here's a pic:
This from a highly and well respected knife maker Buck!!!
http://www.buckknives.com/technical_steel.php
I'm surprised it can be heat treated to 54-56. I thought it was usually in the 53-54 area. 54-56 sounds typical for 440A.
420 is an excellent steel for "wall hangers" and is often used for things like collector swords that aren't actually used for cutting. It is very corrosion resistant and, therefore, good for a collector piece. There are better choices for most knives used to cut, however.
420 is an excellent steel for "wall hangers" and is often used for things like collector swords that aren't actually used for cutting. It is very corrosion resistant and, therefore, good for a collector piece. There are better choices for most knives used to cut, however.
I don't think I've ever used a knife made out of 420J2 alone. But from what I know of steels (which isn't so much that I should be considered any kind of expert), it's very resistant to corrosion but doesn't hold an edge well. Fällkniven laminated VG-10 blades have some 420J2 in them. It's good for stuff like that, but I wouldn't want a blade made out of 420J2 alone.
Cliff Stamp
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440A can reach 59 HRC with oil/cold. Most knives are WAY underhardened.
As I said, lots of well respected makers do not run very hard knives. Fisk runs his personal knives softer than 420J2 is used. Would you call his knives wall hangers.
Looks like a very nice edge profile (high grind, very narrow edge), it should cut very well.
-Cliff
Your new knife reminds me of Bob Dozier's designs. Very nice looking.
As far as 420J2's advantages go:
*Resharpens well - Of course it does! But that's because it doesn't hold an edge for very long, compared to other steels.
*Rockwell Rc 56-58 - True. But it still doesn't compare well to other steels that are also properly heat treated.
*Good manufacturability - This is only an advantage for the knife company or maker. If they save money by using 420J2, hopefully the savings will be passed along to the consumer.
*Good corrosion resistance - An advantage of a lower carbon content compared to other steels. The trade-off is, once again, diminished edge-retention. (If you want a Diver's knife, 420J2 is an excellent choice). My experience has been that AUS-8 is extremely corrosion resistant, but holds an edge longer than 420J2.
*Fine-blankable - Not something I'd consider to be a huge advantage.
Just wanted to add that I do own a few 420 Buck knives. Just a bit surprised to see a custom knife made from that steel.
As far as 420J2's advantages go:
*Resharpens well - Of course it does! But that's because it doesn't hold an edge for very long, compared to other steels.
*Rockwell Rc 56-58 - True. But it still doesn't compare well to other steels that are also properly heat treated.
*Good manufacturability - This is only an advantage for the knife company or maker. If they save money by using 420J2, hopefully the savings will be passed along to the consumer.
*Good corrosion resistance - An advantage of a lower carbon content compared to other steels. The trade-off is, once again, diminished edge-retention. (If you want a Diver's knife, 420J2 is an excellent choice). My experience has been that AUS-8 is extremely corrosion resistant, but holds an edge longer than 420J2.
*Fine-blankable - Not something I'd consider to be a huge advantage.
Just wanted to add that I do own a few 420 Buck knives. Just a bit surprised to see a custom knife made from that steel.