How many knives a year...

Keith Montgomery

Keith Montgomery

Joined
May 9, 2000
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...would a maker have to produce to make a good living as a full timer.

The thread titled, "200,000 knives a year?" has me wondering about this. Of course this number would be very different for a lesser known maker than for one of the big names. It would also depend a lot on what kind of knife you make. A maker that sells mostly low cost utility knives, like say a Bill Siegel or GenO Denning would have to sell quite a few more knives than makers that sell high end or highly collected knives like Jerry Fisk or Bob Loveless.

I imagine that if the majority of knives that a maker sold were in the $200.00 to $300.00 range that somewhere near 200 knives would have to be sold per year. Even if the cost of materials was only $30.00 per knife, you still have to factor in the cost of shop space, wear and tear on machinery, grinder belts, gas to go pick up materials, etc. How in the heck would a maker like (forgive me mentioning his name) Allan Blade, that makes knives from $60.00 to $150.00, produce enough knives to make a living? How much money can be being made on a $60.00 handmade knife? If the selling price was 100% profit, you would have to be selling 500 of them to make what I consider to be even a decent living.

Once a maker has reached the point where his average knife sells for $500.00 to $600.00, fewer have to be made. The cost of higher end materials will be more than offset by the increased prices, but how long does it take to reach this level? For some it will happen quickly, but for many it will take years. So, do you not turn full time maker until your knives have reached a respectable price point?

Anyway, before I ramble on any further, I would appreciate the thoughts of others on this subject.
 
Keith, as a relatively new maker less than two years i have been thinking about this as my goal is to goo full time. considering the amount of time that goes into a well finnished forged blade takeing into consideration handrubbing working nickel etc. i feel at this time that at best i could make one bowie a week and say that i could sell it for $1,000 with no vacations i could make 52k a year with no benifits. I don't make now where near that amount currently for my knives but one can always dream. so i guess that full time is no where in my near future.
 
A fellow I know (baddest flippers) does about 50 knives a year in the $700. range, and a few with material upgrades, Ivory, damascus and such which bring more, He's full time, but I think he said he tinkers with a few other projects to bring in a little extra.
 
Keith, I'm planning on going fulltime in the not to distant future but will have a pension and my wife working to supplement. IMHO, to totally depend on making knives for a living would cause burnout real fast even for the most dedicated makers.
Scott
 
Interesting topic of discussion Keith.

Phil Boguszewski has been making knives since 1979, my friends father was buying Phil's knives before he could sell everything he was producing, so now they have a special arrangement.

Phil's knives are currently going anywhere from 500.00 to 2500.00, makers obviously have to consistently put out quality blades year after year to gain some recognition/reputation, not only that it must be a design that the buyer wants, in some cases it takes years to develop a product that fits in both of these categories.

Nobody makes a better flipper than Phil and I know currently he is producing roughly 90 knives per year, but making knives for that long would tend to burn you out, just like any job. Phil has just recently been very hot (last 4 years?) I was buying his cobra and asp models for 600.00 at one time, but currently those models can't be touched for even double that price

Knife makers are not making blades to get rich, it's what they love to do. I have talked to many a maker who is just making a living. You can't go full time until your blades have reached a respectable price point.

I also think there is a small amount of luck involved in making a blade that the buyer wants.
 
Yep, I would think that trying to make knives full time would be almost impossible if the maker has not reached a level where he/she can charge a repectable amount for a knife. Even then it can be difficult. I know of quite a few makers that get quite large amounts for their knives that still need to hold down another job. Makers also need a large number of people that want to buy their knives.

Eric, if you sell 52 knives at $1000.00 each, you won't make $52,000.00. You will have to subtract all your costs from that amount. Still, if you could sell that many $1000.00 knives in a year, you should still make a pretty good living.

Along with making excellent knives, makers that want to go full time had better be good at self promotion. Not very many become well enough known without promoting themselves that they can just sit back and have the orders pour in. I think you have to be a good businessman as well as a good knifemaker.
 
There are a few other factors involved. Time is the main one. Makers either have to make a certain number of knives that they are not sure will sell--or hope that the customer will be willing to wait months or even years for their product. And most customers do not expect to pay one thin dime in advance. Man, what a tough business.

This is one reason that itt is so important to support knife dealers.
 
First you need to produce knives that have an appeal in style and quality. Then you need to produce them in numbers that, from a manufacturing standpoint, would require you to have a VERY strong and organized work ethic.

At that point, you need to remove yourself partly from the 'passion' of your work and dedicate yourself to the production. Be passionate about earning a living... ;) (I know this is an arguable point. But we are talking about making a LIVING from full-time knifemaking. My priority would have be to my wages, not my desires.)

And then you'd better have an 'impeccable' character.

Damn, this is NOT easy.

Coop

Looking forward to WWG's response, if he would.
 
Keith
It is a tough slog to make a full time living from knives.

Unfortunately unless you are a big name, the expensive art type knives return a lower percentage profit than plainer working knives because of raw material costs. The reallity of the market place is that there are just so many high end collectors to purchase the expensive knives and they tend to follow known makers.

I don't know any makers who can make do full time without picking up a few dollars here and there with non knifemaking projects or pensions from past employment. I call myself a full time knifemaker but as time allows I polish metal, run a retail operation, do a little silversmithing and take on consulting jobs in the metal finishing field. This leaves very little time for a personal life however.
 
GREAT QUESTION!!

One of the reasons I'm so big on swords is that they awake something visceral that more men are willing to pay bigger bucks for. (Why? A whole 'nother thread; I'm not sure).

I was blessed by God with very, very strong arms, a keen eye and lots of stamina. I rough-forge blades "en masse" and "zone-out" when doing so. No 2 are alike, and sometimes I'll hammer-out 10 knives in a day, or a sword blank in a week. (My record at the forge is 13, at the grinder 30)

I've never figured-out a formula, as I have never had to solely support myself or a family with knifemaking/swords alone. Since I "married money" I'll likely never have to, but this Winter should see me produce a great number of sword blanks to perfect this Spring.

Daniel
 
I was forced into becoming a full time maker when I got downsized from my day job about ten years ago and spent 11 months doing a job search and trying to maintain my life style by making and selling knives. What happened is it turned a great hobby into a job. I had to be keenly aware of materials costs and overhead, I continually did time studies on myself to improve production and I had to keep better track of sales costs (table costs at shows, motels, meals, travel expense etc.) It really took a lot of the fun out of being a knife maker. Prior to my lay off, I had often thought that I would like to be my own boss by making knives for a living but in reality every customer turned out to be my boss with demands on my time and creativity.

I will be taking an early retirement this spring and will supplement my income by producing a few more knives but with less urgency than when I was relying on knives for a living. I will do more puttering in my shop, producing one knife at a time rather than trying to do assembly line, production type work. If it takes me three days to make a $200 knife, so be it.
 
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