How many strokes per side, or what is your sharpening regimine?

B

bgentry

Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
1,575
In a recent thread, learnme talked about how many strokes per side, per grit. I thought it deserved more attention, so I'm going to link to his statement/question and to knifenut's response.

Learnme said: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7576829&postcount=9

Knifenut responded: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7577187&postcount=13

That's kinda different than what I do. A quick summary of my standard sharpening procedure would be:

1. 5 to 10 strokes per side, alternating, on a medium SiC stone until I get a burr to pop up on one side. Keep going until the burr runs full length. This might take 50 strokes per side, or it might take 10. Or 100. Depends on the blade steel, angle, and how dull it is.
2. Flip over and do enough strokes (usually less than 15) to get a full length burr on the other side. Flip over and do a few to eliminate the second burr.
3. On the same medium SiC stone, raise the angle around 5 degrees and put a micro bevel on the blade. The first side should take no more than 15ish strokes until I get a burr.
4. Flip it over and get a burr on the other side, again with a microbevel. Flip over again and do a few light strokes until the burr is gone.
5. Switch to the Spyderco medium ceramic at the same high angle, working on the micro bevel. This happens *fast*. Like 5 strokes and I've got a burr running full length on one side.
6. Flip over and get a burr on the other side. Again, *fast*: 3 to 5 strokes. Flip over and eliminate the burr with 1 to 3 light strokes.

I can go to the Spyderco fine ceramic and repeat 5 - 6, which again only take 3 to 5 strokes per side. Or I can strop after either of these stones and get a finer edge.

My point is that with the fine grits, and at the higher micro bevel angle, the number of strokes is *tiny*. I can't imagine doing 50 strokes per side on the medium ceramic *unless* I was trying to polish the back bevel instead.

Am I cheating?

Brian.
 
I don't use microbevels, I take advantage of the natural convex of hand sharpening.

The number of strokes is also more related to stropping. I sharpen by running the blade for choil to tip and back again without removing it from the stone. I do this 5-10 time then switch sides, when I'm about finished with the stone I'm on I alternate for about 10-20 strokes but with stropping I always alternate.
 
I have become extremely sensitive to feeling for a burr using my fingertip. So I use as many strokes as it takes on a side to create just the slightest amount of burring. Then switch sides back and forth a few times to finish the edge.
 
I pay no attention to numbers when sharpening but simply sharpen each side until I see and feel a burr form from that side I'm sharpening and then move to the other side. Once you have a good burr on it then you stop because any further sharpening after that is just over sharpening. I move to a ceramic after the burr is evident on both sides of the blade to then proceed to work the burr off for a nice true apex at the cutting edge.

Some steels have a greater wear resistance than others so it may take 30 swipes per side, not that I'd know, others may take less. Mainly I'm looking at it visibly to see that it looks even and that the burr is all along the entire edge. Sometimes some parts of the primary grind on blades I buy or even make are thinner maybe in back and thicker at the tip so it may take more time and effort to get the burr on one part of the edge over another. This leads to one part of the blade being basically as far as you need to take it while another part is such that you have not even reached the apex yet to form a burr so you have to keep doing what you are doing on those areas and ignore the ones you have reached the apex on.

Anyway, its true that some steels have more stubborn burrs than others so they can be difficult to remove so you may only need two or three quick swipes to knock one off with some while others seem to take forever. In the end if I get it sharp to my satisfaction thats all that matters.

STR
 
Last edited:
As many as I need.

Once I get a proper edge with the coarse stone, I move up grits and do 20-30 strokes each side, alternate strokes a few times, move up grits again and repeat. I don't need this many strokes for each side but I like a shiny bevel.

I usually don't sharpen with stones though because I'm lazy(belt sander :)).
 
Being new to sharpening, what to you mean by "raising a burr"? What does this look/feel like? I've been practicing with kitchen knives, pocket knives and a filet knife with VERY mediocre results.

Thanks,
Jay
 
Thanks to ceramic sharpeners, it's become so simple to touch up an edge to bring back that razor sharpness that I rarely need more than about four or five strokes per side. That's true even for the S30V knives.

You kids are lucky. I remember when it was Arkansas stones or nothing. That wasn't much fun.
 
steelheadr said:
Being new to sharpening, what to you mean by "raising a burr"? What does this look/feel like? I've been practicing with kitchen knives, pocket knives and a filet knife with VERY mediocre results.

Thanks,
Jay
Click to expand...

Burr. Also referred to as 'wire edge' which sometimes stands up off the apex enough to see it in certain light. You can feel it rubbing your finger over the edge from spine to edge. Generally speaking the burr shows up on the opposite side of the the blade from the side you sharpen. So for example if you had the knife holding such that the logo side of the blade is down on the stone the burr would be felt on the side facing you if you rubbed down that side with your finger. When you flip the blade to sharpen the other side the burr would move as you rotate the blade. If by chance the burr did not move entirely along the whole edge after sharpening one side and was still the same as before you flipped it over it indicates you have not yet hit the apex on that opposite side you were just sharpening. So continue until the burr evenly along the entire edge or focus on the area that it is not hitting the apex until it moves from one side to the other as you flip the blade. Then once you see a burr or feel it evenly moving from one side to the other you move to the ceramic to knock it off.

Touching up a blade and resharpening one are different things IMO. I consider sharpening to be when you are creating the bevel either for the first time or after the initial one has worn down on the cutting edge. After the old bevel is brought to a point of becoming obtuse from progressive touching up to bring the edge back there comes a time for setting down to basically reprofile or recreate the bevel angle. Once the old bevel gets thick it can still be sharp at the apex but being so thick it does not slice very effectively anymore and even when sharp it takes more force to make cuts compared to when it was a new fresh bevel at the angle you selected when it was created. If say that was a 15, 18 degree bevel or 21 degree most often what happens is the bevel angle gets worn and becomes more obtuse from both use and from touch ups to the apex of the edge. Many times the full bevel is not maintained by touch ups but just the apex or cutting portion of the edge only so when you stop to think about this the edge starts getting thicker or degrading from the first touch up on until the entire bevel is refreshed. This is why needless touch ups should be avoided.

Some call both methods sharpening but to me the difference is time involved. Recreating a new bevel takes time and effort. Touch ups take a matter of a few swipes in the field or a minute or two on some ceramic sticks.

STR
 
Last edited:
Unless the bevels on each side are obviously different, I just alternate sides with each stroke and keep doing this until it is sharp. If a burr forms, I remove it and continue alternating sides. I try to avoid burrs. This precedure works for me.
 
STR: I agree that there's a difference between touching up a knife and "sharpening." Thankfully, I don't have to break out the diamond hones and do a full "sharpening" very often.
 
I'm definitely a visual learner. I'm sure these descriptions work for some, but I really need a hands on lesson or 5. Any ideas where it is possible to actually be taught all this info? I've checked with the local Woodcrafter store but they don't have any sharpening classes scheduled in the near future.

Jay
 
steelheadr said:
I'm definitely a visual learner. I'm sure these descriptions work for some, but I really need a hands on lesson or 5. Any ideas where it is possible to actually be taught all this info? I've checked with the local Woodcrafter store but they don't have any sharpening classes scheduled in the near future.
Click to expand...

Too bad you're not local; I'd try to help you out.

Maybe a guide with pictures and more descriptive terms would help you. The two best guides I have found are:

1. Chad Ward's Tutorial
2. Steve Bottorff's Online Guide/Book

Both are very good. Chad's is substantially longer, but I think slightly more clear as well.

Otherwise, maybe someone here is in Oregon (or near) and can help you out more in person.

Brian.
 
I'll another that will throw his hat in with STR. I don't really count or anything. The burr is the all important thing to learn to work for. Until I learned that, I got sharp knives, but it was more hit and miss than anything. Once I got that down, the rest just fell into place.
 
Similar to STR here, except after grinding in the bevel and reducing the burr on my low grit shaping stone, I stop relying on the bur. My usual progression is DMT X coarse, DMT fine to polish the bevel and reduce the bur, then sharpmaker med, fine, then UF. Once I get to the sharpmaker rods I try to keep my technique good and my strokes light enough that I can't detect a bur with my fingers. I can usually do pretty good going by feel, after a while I think it's easy to tell whether you're hitting the edge with your stroke or not. I check for burs at every step but don't expect to feel them by hand once I've moved up to the SM.
 
I follow a pretty similar procedure, Vivi, if I'm giving the full on treatment.
 
Vivi said:
Similar to STR here, except after grinding in the bevel and reducing the burr on my low grit shaping stone, I stop relying on the bur. My usual progression is DMT X coarse, DMT fine to polish the bevel and reduce the bur, then sharpmaker med, fine, then UF. Once I get to the sharpmaker rods I try to keep my technique good and my strokes light enough that I can't detect a bur with my fingers. I can usually do pretty good going by feel, after a while I think it's easy to tell whether you're hitting the edge with your stroke or not. I check for burs at every step but don't expect to feel them by hand once I've moved up to the SM.
Click to expand...

Makes sense because I do that as well but when trying to explain to people that maybe don't do it as often I felt it best to start from the basics and go from there. There are subtleties of course that relate to how much burr you may get based on how much pressure you are using and even what kind of burr to some extent also based on technique and pressure so the general school of thought is that as your edge progresses you lighten up progressively right along with that progress. There has to be an easier way to say that without all the same word but so long as the point gets across I guess we're good. :)

I should have added that many times after using the white hone, A/K/A UF hone for my Spyderco Sharpmaker that I often do some of what I call forced strops on a flat legal pad cardboard sitting flat on a table top. We buy that Fancy Feast cat food for my wife's three cats and my one cat (yes we maintain separate animals. Mine are the cool ones a dog and cat :D) and the packages come with these neat little flat cardboard separators for the cans which I find are perfect for this application so I save a lot of them unless they have depressions in them from the cans. They are basically the same material as the legal pad backing only in a more convenient thickness and size.

STR
 
You raise some good points. There are many things that will influence bur formation, such as steel type, edge angle, the presence or lack of a microbevel and so forth. But what you say about using lighter pressure as you progress to finer stones is very true. Even if you like to finish your edges at 600 grit you're going to want to use the lightest strokes possible towards the end.
 
Well, I've ordered a Sharpmaker. I'll be using this to keep the kitchen knives safe and sharp. My family likes to use knives for just about everything, including cutting. :(

For my working knives, I want to sharpen on a stone. I think a few DMT stones and a C/F Duo-Sharp are in my future. I have a Schrade folder I bought in the early 80's as my daily use knife in the Navy to practice on.

Suggestions? Advice?

Thanks,
Jay
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top