How old to engage kiddos in various outdoor activities

[BOSS1]

Greetings,

Being NOT in my early/mid 20's or even 30's, with a couple of sub-8 year olds under the roof, we got off to a late start. Coffee doesn't quite have the recovery/kick to keep the 'motor running' like it used too. Couple that with a work email-capable 'smart phone' (world's longest leashes) strapped me at pretty much 24/7/365 ...and well, you get the idea...

By contrast, I grew up with parents that took us camping quite regularly, and have many fond memories. But my parents also had modest pre-owned campers/motorhomes (which we do not) and went to decent camp grounds. I know they started taking us out 'camping' when we were pretty darn young (1 year old-ish). But again, they were in their 20's, had a camper (no tents, big difference), no cell phones. Put another way,

by the time they were my age, my siblings and I were pretty much grown/out of the house and they could actually 'get away' without the unending work interruptions so common today.​

I know a lot of it is dependent on the kid(s)...some seem to naturally want to 'hit the trail,' while others you're hoping it's not going to be another episode of getting the backpacks packed up, drive to the trailhead, and 200 yds down the trail the 'I'mmmmmm boooooorrrreeed' and 'Hooooowwww faaarrrr arrrreeee wweeee goooooinnngggg?' starts up.

We have done some 'glamping' outings...modest cabin rentals for a couple few days on a lake (works well, unless the idea of trying to set up a tent in the rain with a couple sub 5-6 year olds running around is your idea of a good time...which it absolute is NOT for me)...and things of that nature. And couple short day hikes (with appropriately packed snacks to help keep them semi-content). These all worked out...ok.

Disneyland isn't in the cards any time in the near future (next few years), but I would like them to go just for the 'experience.' I think it is a neat place for them to go to at least once as a youngster.

But in the mean time, we live in an absolute outstanding Pacific NW area for hiking/outdoor related activities. I'm really hoping in the next couple years they really develop more appreciation and range for outdoorsy stuff (beyond cell phone/social media reception, which we've worked hard to curtail).

So the question is: What 'outdoorsy' stuff are you doing with the kiddos and at what ages? What kind of gear is working for you?

Just a interesting sharing of ideas/experiences discussion.

Discuss.
BOSS

 

[gadgetgeek]

I've got no kids of my own, but getting kids out into the wilderness (or as close to it as the nutrition and housing dept will let them) is I guess what you could call my profession.

I generally deal with kids from the age of 10 and up, and with those kids we do camp-outs, day-walks and all that good stuff. With younger kids we stuff like bug hunting, our mini flying fox, and a thing we call a glider possum, basically a rope, pulley and harness that lets us lift them about 25 feet in the air. From 9 and up we do longer walks, canoeing, archery, climbing, abseiling, various high-rope stuff, as well as team building stuff like obstacle courses. Its all about finding their comfort zone and moving it, gaining independence from adults, and learning to rely on and be reliable to their peers instead.

On the one hand, think smaller. What can you do closer to home that gets them some of those dirt time experiences, growing something in the back yard, collecting bugs, all that sort of thing. There are a lot of skills that come into this as well. Food prep, and basic kitchen safety is something I end up teaching to 15-16 year olds! I run into heaps of kids who don't know how capable they are because no one pushes them, they race up to where they think their comfort zone should be and then come to a shuddering halt, unwilling to find out if they will succeed or fail on the next step. I shouldn't have to explain to a 10 year old that the pot the boiling water is in, is in fact "boiling hot".

Why these things? The more they can do, and want to do, the easier it is for you to handle the bigger aspects of the trip. Cabins and trailers are great if they get you out the door and onto those day-trips. Having the kids curiosity fed before hand gives them the appetite for the non-digital world, and helps with that whole "But I can just watch that on youtube" vibe. But if the option is more little trips or fewer big ones, I'd take quantity, that way you will have more good trips in the memory bank to damp down the few bad ones.

Then the big things. Get them ready for the trips now that you want to do, sure you might be out on the trail as "old dad" but get them to carry more so you can keep up. Or figure out things that they can do, and you can support that don't have that physicality involved. Camps and clubs are a way to get that time in, and even if the memories aren't all formed with you there, but getting them to tell you the stories, you can become part of them.

I've met as many independent kids who have never camped as kids who "camp all the time" that can't follow basic instructions because they get everything done for them.

As far as gear goes, some of the biggest mistakes I see:
kid's pack is too big/small doesn't fit them or what they need.
Kid's sleeping bag is too big/small/ untested/ and the kid can't roll it up themselves! (and they brought a full size pillow in a white pillowcase....)
Old crapped out shoes that don't have enough life left to handle the trail.
kid doesn't know how to handle wet clothing, say how to dry out swimwear and towels.
Kid is worried about getting this or that bit of clothing damaged or dirty.
Cheap headlamp that shatters as soon as its dropped.
super $$ headlamp with a million modes all of which are annoying to everyone else.
cotton hoodie instead of a raincoat (though I figure someone from the PNW can figure that out)
Camelbac instead of bottles, bottles that leak, 750ml of water when its summer in the tropics. Camelbacks are not kid-proof, I've yet to go on a trip were one wasn't DOA, and then the kid has no way to carry more water. Its also nearly impossible to monitor how much water they are drinking.

Things I see that are good:
water bottle in a shoulder strap holder, more versatile to carry, less likely to get left behind.
Any sort of hat the kid likes is a good start, but protecting those ears is even better.
Kids that know how to layer have more fun
Bug jackets (no-see-um mesh) can reduce how much deet your kids have to get soaked in
Canoeing might be a good way to see a lot without expending a heap of energy, and might be a fun family skill to learn together, including how to get back in to the canoe, and all that.
Kids that cook their own food, or are at least willing to try new foods have a much better time than those that don't. I get that there are picky eaters and not everyone is the same, but I've run into quite a few kids who just needed a little push.

At any rate, good luck with getting your munchkins out into the wide world, the fact that you are willing to try is easily the most important step, rather than how most do it, either not at all, or just contract out (not that there is anything wrong with that, or I wouldn't have a job)

 

[heat_treat]

^^ Great reply and thanks for taking the time to post it.

I have a 7 and 11 year old at the moment and am over 50 but getting them outside is not only very rewarding but also just loads of fun.

 

[fishiker]

I am also over 50, my son will be 4 this Saturday. We have been outdoors with him since he was a few months old. I hiked with him in a pack designed for kids once he was old enough to hold his head up. A short hike can be an adventure and I do my best to make it that way focusing on the journey not the destination. He might have been 6 months old the first time we camped in a tent. I took him "hunting" for the first time this year. We spent more time preparing/walking than we did sitting and didn't see a thing but it's a memory I'll hang onto. Every minute outdoors with him is a pleasure.

 

[kamagong]

Every summer the family goes on a camping trip for a few days. It's become a bit of a tradition. The first year we went, we unknowingly chose a spot with non-existent cell service. My wife loved it. We haven't been that lucky since, but if you want to get away from your technological tether, try to choose a place without coverage. I know it's getting harder and harder, but I think it can still be done.

As to how to get the kids involved, just do it. Most kids take to the outdoors if given the opportunity. I know my little girl did. Yours are still young enough that it shouldn't be a problem. Plus, tell them ahead of time that tech is a no-go. Once we reach the campsite, no phones or pads until we leave.

 

[eomeo]

I've got an almost 3-year old. We have done a few overnight camping trips and some hiking. Most often we just end up tromping through the woods in our neighborhood. With a 3-year old, he always wants to be outside. What I've struggled with is creating an environment in which he can sleep at night.

I am not sure if you are looking for advice or not, but here are my thoughts. I hope to be able to do all these in a couple more years.

I think 5-8 year olds are better able to handle the logistics of camping - eating, sleeping, bathrooms, tents. What you need is a series of activities for them, and the right location to partake in said activities. At the campsite, they can help with cooking and fire building. To keep them entertained, board games, books, and favorite toys should all be helpful.

For PNW, you can really scale your adventures up over time.

Camp at the beach. Lots of camping on the WA/OR coast in the state parks. These parks are easy. From there, you can play on the beach and do normal camp stuff. I expect most kids love to comb the sand for shells and live/dead critters. Many of the sites also put you within an hour's drive of some easy hiking in the surrounding hills.

Go through the Ape Caves at Mt. St. Helens. It's a ~1 mile lava tube. It's an awesome huge tunnel that makes a good day trip. About 45 degrees F, so bring coats and extra lights. Plenty of camping in the surrounding area as well. Try the Boulder Cave off HWY 410 for a similar, but less intense experience.

Take a hike on any trail in the mountains. You can focus on whatever you want with the trail... plants, bugs, fungi, birds, waterfalls, views. It can be about the cool stuff you see, or the achievement of making it to the top.

As for gear, car camping gear is pretty cheap and easy to gear up for. Flashlights/Headlamps/Lanterns, a stove, sleeping bags, pads, and tent. The cheap stuff at Walmart or Costco is adequate to get started. If money is no issue, you can get a lot nicer stuff online, at REI, or at local stores. I can't wait until I can put my gear back to work.

 

[22-rimfire]

Need to make spending time in the outdoors fun and educational. It can become a tradition for the kids so that they can do the same when they have kids. Hit the day hike spots in your area just to spend the day outdoors. Fires are always fun for kids (assuming they are allowed). If not, hit places where they are allowed or the topic never really came up like along a river kayaking or canoeing. It is also good exercise for us old folks.

 

[BOSS1]

Thanks for the replies thus far, much appreciated.

I've got the camping down (know how to do it, have the gear), and it's not like I we haven't done anything...last summer we were out lake kayaking, to the beach multiple times, multi-day cabin trips, been to Mt. Rainer, Olympic National Park, etc.

I guess this is more of the 'at age X, we do Y. We use a cabin/motorhome/tent.' Sorta like "We have a trailer and my 8 year old daughter can manage 3-mile hikes with a 10 lb. pack" type of stuff.

Maybe in few more years, we can give the tent camping more of a go, when things are a little less 'chaotic,' but in reality, I see more of a trailer rental down the road (SUV can tow a good size one)... much more enjoyable should the weather decide to rain during the time you scheduled to go camping (always a possibility here in the PNW)...and at my age a coffee maker and a decent mattress take it from 'this isn't fun anymore' to 'yep, we're having a good time.'

As for a 6 month old in a tent...doable? Yes, but no thanks. It's all rather blurry now, but as I recall 6 months equaled teething which in turn equaled not much sleep. That and trying to do a diaper changes in the middle of the night in a tent without the fully equipped changing table ...I applaud your resolve!

Cheers,
BOSS

 

[jaseman]

We are somewhere between 'hard-core, and 'glamping'. Wife and I used to tent camp all the time, but these days it's a 24' trailer with all the amenities. I'm 45, and like you, a mattress and fresh coffee make a world of difference in the morning.

Our daughter is 8, and loves camping (most times... LOL). We don't hold back much with her in the 'wild'. She has no problem doing a 5 mile hike, carrying her own gear (a fanny pack filled with snacks and things she picks up along the way, and a water bottle), though she's spent at the end of it. We'll rock climb and boulder - within reason - and I'll let her push her limits a bit as long as she's with me. We climbed a pretty steep, tricky, waterfall in the Smokies this summer, and she was a real rock star!

This year will be a big step up for her. She's helped with the fire, but I plan on teaching her how to start one herself. Might even show her how to do it with a ferro rod. She will also be getting her own knife this year. Most likely some sort of multi-tool. Hoping to teach her to shoot as well, but she has yet to show any interest. And we're going to the Grand Canyon in August, so she'll be required to pull her weight a bit more. She'll do fine.

I don't think there really is a good way to determine age vs. expectations. Best I can say is push them a little bit each time, and see where their capabilities and interests are. I've seen 14 year olds who could wield a camp axe like a scalpel, but can't figure out how to set up thier own tent. But I do know, push them a little, give them a little sense of independence, and they will surprise you with what they can do, and how young they can do it.

 

[BOSS1]

Jaseman,

Thanks, good info. On paper, you and I are pretty closely matched, other than I have more than one kiddo, and they're usually 180 deg. apart in what activities we are trying to do.

24 ft. is probably a bit big, we'd probably be a bit smaller, 18-20 ft., but yeah, you get the idea. For most, especially those of us a bit more...'mature'... you probably only have to camp in once in a nice trailer to prefer it over a tent (especially if the weather isn't cooperating), unless you're trying to go someplace where you can't take vehicle(s)...which can be a very worthwhile trip indeed.

As to the kiddos, I think they next ~2 years will (hopefully) see some big improvements in capabilities. I'd very much like to begin pushing the experiences and take advantage of the opportunities just down the road(s) in our area.

Cheers,
BOSS

 

[Herlock]

Hi!

I am 46 and have three kids (15, 11, 4) and I regularly take them with me outdoor. With all of them, my wife and I have always started with easy one day hikes (we’re lucky enough to live in a place where it’s possible to reach the mountains hiking trails in a driving time below 2 hrs.).

I have started to take all of them out in the woods (starting with those close by our home) since they were around 2 yrs. old, carrying them in a child carrier backpack for the long walking and then letting them stroll a bit around in the woods/clearings during the breaks or once reached the destinations (always strictly supervised). In this way, they started to familiarize with the outdoor environment and didn’t get too much tired. Growing up (around the age of 5 yrs. old), we had them starting to practice some skills, like basic knife skills (with SAKs), very simple food prep (e.g. making a sandwich, peeling apples, grill a sausage, etc.), fire prep (collecting “right” wood, building up a fire pit, lighting matches, etc.), camp set up (unpack a tarp, basic knots, etc.), fishing, wild edibles recognition/collection, etc.

In this way they have to walk to reach the destinations but also get involved into some funnier activities and don’t get that bored. As an average, I would say today we cover 8-10 km forth and back during these one day hikes and I tried to choose days with a pleasant (or at least decent) weather conditions for the “introduction program” .

Then we introduced them all to the two/three days hikes. Usually we have one night at some mountain hut (with common lunches/dinner prepared by staff and common sleeping rooms with bunkbeds for all the mountaineers with common bathrooms/toilets) and one night tent camping, always close to a mountain hut anyway for safety reasons, so they can experience the building up of the tents (rather easy nowadays with igloos) and the thrill of sleeping outdoor. They always liked these outings a lot! I have to say sleep has never been an issue for the little ones, after such a busy day they are normally tired and always sleep quite well! Then, as you said, of course it’s a matter of what they like/personal character. My wife and daughter (11) e.g. are not so much “outdoor camping Ladies”, they normally join with pleasure the one day hikes (especially when weather/T° is OK ) but prefer the comfort our home or some hotel can offer for the overnights (rather than the Spartan accommodation a mountain hut/tent can provide); my elderly son and even the little boy are instead more enthusiast about spending nights outdoor and the old one even decided on his own to join WWF Nature Camps for two years in a row now during summers. And that’s a lot of nights in the tents, hiking, fire prep, trails/parks maintenance, etc.

About gear it’s hard for me to say; it depends a lot on the area and environment you’re hiking in. For example, here in the Alps, water is rarely a problem, all villages have public fountains to fill up the canteens before hitting the trails and, on the trails themselves, it’s rather full of natural springs which are also noted on the maps. Worst case there are always torrents and brooks running or Alpine ponds on the way and it’s a matter of boiling some. Also, this is not the deep wild, the mountains here are somehow always populated by villagers, hikers, shepherds, woodsmen, farmers, hunters, etc. so it’s not an extreme outdoor, unless one really wants to go for climbing. My kids normally carry their own backpacks, the size it’s proportioned to their age/size . I am the one normally carrying first aid and emergency items. Anyway there’s no way to force them to leave cell phones home, I lost all the battles in this respect and don’t expect to win the war. I live with that also because I don’t want to start what should be a fun/relaxing day quarrelling; fortunately, still, some areas have bad signal coverage. What can I do, I have to compromise, they’re Millennials 100%! To be fair, I also always carry mine, even if it's for safety reasons.

This is very much the way I grew up too, my parents were avid mountain hikers/skiers and always took us out on the trails/ski runs for summer and winter vacations and also I joined the Scouts for several years. So it comes natural for me to keep up the traditions, so to say .

Overall I would say my kids like hiking/camping but, if you ask them, surely downhill skiing is their favourite outdoor activity!

Take care and have fun with the kids; I believe these are the family activities which will remain among the dearest memories of childhood !

 

[gadgetgeek]

Boss, I think you are on the right track with it all. You don't strike me as the bubble-wrap type. As long as you are keeping a realistic view of what you want your kids to do and not getting into the stadium-parent kind of thing, i'm sure you'll do fine.

 

[22-rimfire]

.... But I do know, push them a little, give them a little sense of independence, and they will surprise you with what they can do, and how young they can do it.

The independence aspect is important. As a kid, we pretty much "ran wild" in the woods building fires, chopping down trees selectively, hunting when we got old enough, and taking chances that most adults would just say "no way". I say we ran wild, we still had spent time with my Dad and he instilled a sense of conservation and awareness/appreciation of nature into each of us. I might say that most of this was done on our own property or on neighbors properties within a couple of miles of our home. No Rambo stuff.... but we did this before Rambo happened.

Always remember one hike with my Dad and Uncle... I was young. We hiked to some place my Dad was interested in. He liked old places. Anyway, I got so tired that Dad carried me on his shoulders for most of the hike. I would guess that I was 5 years old. To this day, I think of that hike as the hike from hell....

 

[3fifty7]

I'm in my mid 30's, kids are (son)8 & 11(daughter).
We camped in the back yard until they were 4 & 7, half day trips only until then, no way am I taking a 3yo out and away for the night in a tent. But somewhere in that 3-4yo range the amount of crap they needed to survive a 4 hour trip was cut down by 75%.

I have hunted and fished all my life, so I exposed my kids to this and the outdoors fairly early. I can't tell you how many Mickey Mouse, Batman & Barbie fishing poles have come and gone!
My son started in BoyScouts at 5 or 6, and we live in a small community where the whole family can be involved in all camping trips at this age.
As far as keeping their attention we will do a flora and fauna scavenger hunt as well as being on the lookout for additions to their rock collections. They are involved in food prep before we leave and service while we are out, I say involved more like in charge of, and take the lead in fire making (matches) and maintaining.

They each have had a pocket knife since they were 8 so whittling pointed sticks and such are looked forward to. Hopefully sometime this month we will forge their first fixed blades together, they got some 15n20 and scales for Christmas.

On an overnight trip the first thing that gets packed, after the water, is a kettle and French press.

 

[jaseman]

Jaseman,

Thanks, good info. On paper, you and I are pretty closely matched, other than I have more than one kiddo, and they're usually 180 deg. apart in what activities we are trying to do.

24 ft. is probably a bit big, we'd probably be a bit smaller, 18-20 ft., but yeah, you get the idea. For most, especially those of us a bit more...'mature'... you probably only have to camp in once in a nice trailer to prefer it over a tent (especially if the weather isn't cooperating), unless you're trying to go someplace where you can't take vehicle(s)...which can be a very worthwhile trip indeed.

As to the kiddos, I think they next ~2 years will (hopefully) see some big improvements in capabilities. I'd very much like to begin pushing the experiences and take advantage of the opportunities just down the road(s) in our area.

Cheers,
BOSS

If you have the ability, rent a trailer first. We originally looked at 18' ones, and I'm glad we moved up in size. Even with just three of us, it gets real cramped, real quick, if the weather is bad and your forced to stay inside for long periods of time. Especially when you also have to store all your gear in it as well (there is never enough storage...LOL). Your limiting factor is towing with an SUV, though. Your towing capacity is limited by your frame size.

Quite frankly, if it wasn't for the girls, I'd still be perfectly content to tent camp. It opens up a lot more sites to camp in, where as my camper limits me to sites big enough to place the trailer, which also tends to put us in with all the true "glampers" at some campgrounds instead of off in the woods. But I gotta admit, there's a lot to be said for backing in your own little, self contained, living space. It's just different than how I used to do it in my teens and twenties.

How old are your kids? I didn't see you mention it anywhere.

 

[SharpieB]

We camped a ton with our daughter who just turned 5 over the last 2 summers. She/we loved it so much that I bought a brand new 45’ 5th wheel and parked it at the campground/trailer park we love. But even in a tent, it was great. Kids love the fire, chipmunks, swimming, etc. We are late 40’s and also have 20/22 y.o. boys.

Expensive, but you don’t need a new trailer or something as big as what I got. Smaller would be better for travelling as I don’t plan to pull my beast anywhere. But again, nothing wrong with a tent, a bonfire and some s’mores,!

She also snowboards in the winter. She played hockey last year and wasn’t a fan.

 

[Cryptyc]

BOSS1,

My daughter will soon be 11 and my son is newly 9. My wife and I are young, as in our mid 30s. My boy is very much into the outdoors like I am. He likes knives, guns, hunting, fishing, hiking, firebuilding, bush work etc. My daughter is down for whatever involves water (she loves water). She will hang out at a creek all day catching and boiling crayfish for a snack etc. She also loves fishing. My wife tolerates our adventures lol. She's not very outdoorsy. I always bring a game with, like ladder golf, or a football, or a kick ball etc to keep them occupied if they get tired of playing in the creek. I also make a fire and cook every time we go out in the woods. Once they learn to make a fire and cook some food over it, they'll be hooked.

I started by just taking my kids with me wherever I went. If I wanted to hit the woods for a hike, we went. If I wanted to go fishing, we went. If they showed interest or wanted to go somewhere, we went. Side note, I didn't ever push staying long or hiking far etc when introducing them. I didn't want them to see it as a negative experience. My son and daughter both have knife and firearm training (extensive many year training before using actual sharp blades, or firing an actual 22 firearm). It started with rubber and plastic replicas, then unsharpened knives, then remotely sharp knives, then actual user blades. I won't go into the firearms training because that is much more intensive.

Our trips are to close locations, we are lucky to have some land near us. As my children get older we will start to travel. My son already talks to me about going for some big game hunts out west, etc. I just need them to get some more experience, knowledge, and strength before we expand our adventures.

 

[fishiker]

I think the keys to keeping kids happy is to have activities to keep them occupied and be flexible with your plans. If they learn in the process that's a plus but no harm if something is strictly for the fun of it. Most of our hikes take more than twice as long as they should because we will stop any time my son wants, whether it's something as simple as to look at a plant or bug or to throw rocks into the water. Our outdoor trips vary from short walks at a nearby park to week long camping trips. When camping I make sure he has some of his toys along and an electronic device to keep him entertained if it rains or for time when my wife and I want to just sit by the fire and relax. I've found that the cheap lights work best, especially the ones that sell for $1 at the giant mart. He turns 4 today and I don't know how many lights I have bought him but I've never had to scold him for breaking or losing one. Regardless of the value I try to teach him to take care of his things but take into account he is a little boy and I expect him to break/loose things. He's proud of his cheap compass and always grabs it when we go for a hike. I'll get him a better one this summer and start some basic orienteering with simple treasure hunts. Fishing is very relaxing and fun but fishing and catching nothing can be boring for kids. Catching several panfish or chubs can be a lot more fun than catching a couple trout or bass. We keep cards, dominoes, dice, and a few other simple games in our camping stuff. This helps with the fun when it rains or after dark. When we go out it is to relax and have fun. If it gets to the point that we're not enjoying ourselves for any reason we have no problem going back home. If you force your children to do something and they have a terrible time it will become an activity they despise. Keep them involved and you'll do okay.

 

[Horsewright]

In our deal we start young. My son when he was probably 7 or 8:

We were packing up the pack horses for a pack trip into the High Sierra. He'd been riding on his own since he was two. He'd been in the saddle in front of me prior to that. Not just us, again pretty common in our cowboy world. I just made these leggings for this five year old young man:

And this pair for a young lady for her first birthday. I imagine she'll be in the saddle in front of mom or dad for a while.

This two year old young man was up picking up his leggings I made him just like dad's.

My wife and his mom were being extra careful with him cause he'd already fallen off his horse earlier that day.

Check these two young Canadian cowboys looking at my knives at a show. If ya look close ya see they are both already wearing belt knives. I spoke at length with their mom. She started them with wooden knives, then a steel knife with out an edge and then finally a knife with an edge when they were ready.

Anyhow we start em early and it seems they keep going. Can't help ya with the phone deal most of the places we go/are they don't much work anyways. My son now works on this ranch in northern AZ. Its bigger than the state of RI. Service is spotty.

Service works on our place though:

And like you, they were calling him to come work. Highly skilled cowboys are in demand.

 

[Brommeland]

I'm 57 - got kids ranging from 16 to 31. I started with mine when they were around 5-6 yrs old. First off, with "backyard" camping in a tent, then firemaking skills and basic outdoor survival stuff which most of them thought was cool as could be at the time (which was done close to home). By the time they were 8-9, they could start a fire from scratch with a Mora and a firesteel (and a little help from Vaseline soaked cotton balls)...
From there, I bought 45 acres of mountain top in East TN that is located smack dab in the center of 1600 more undeveloped acres and they then had their own private campground to explore (watch out for the rattle snakes & copperheads kiddos & take the dogs and a walkie talkie with you).....

A couple of things that I learned:

1. Girls need "daddy time" as much as do boys.

2. Both sexes will do their best to kill themselves if left unattended, but boys are more danger prone. Girls seem a bit smarter....

3. Ask them what they want to do instead of always doing what you think of as fun. "Kid fun" and "grown-up fun" are often not at all the same thing.

4. Gear: They will lose and/or destroy most everything they get their hands on early on. However, they still need stuff that works. Forget super hi tech ultralight gear until they are at least old enough to drive. Stick with basic, durable "tough" but inexpensive equipment. (Mora knives and MSS sleeping bags are prime examples).

5. Don't skimp on proper boots - sore feet will make you very unhappy. The one thing that you'll learn very quickly is that unhappy kids like to share their feelings. Same goes for fatigue - when a kid gets tired, they WILL share and you will not be happy.

6. Make sure that you keep them as warm and dry as possible - kids usually have fast metabolisms, but don't generally have the same ability to regulate body temps as adults. Anecdote: When my eldest daughter was 5, I remember her standing out in the snow with her teeth chattering and shivering, saying ddddaaddy, I'm cccold". I responded by saying, "honey, put on your coat" (she was holding her parka folded over in her arms). And lest you think that I have stupid kids, they all have IQ's higher than Einstein. It's just that all kids are stupid - it's in their job description. It had just not occurred to her that the parka would solve her problem. (See # 2 above).

7. Keep it light and have fun. Nobody wants a DI for a dad......