How overbuilt is too overbuilt?

M

MarkN86

Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
619
This may be a touchy subject that has been discussed ad nauseum, but bear with me.

Something that's been on my mind for a while now is overbuilt folders. A strong, well built folding knife is a good asset to have when a fixed blade is not practical or available, but where is the balance? At what point does the blade stop being the weak point and the lock start being the most likely point of failure?

It seems like we are getting deeper into the rabbit hole where a well sharpened machete, built for chopping, is a better slicer than a comically overbuilt folding knife. Can anyone else see the irony here? Is there something I don't know or have misunderstood?

I know, if I don't like something I don't have to buy it, I'm just looking to see another person's opinion and see why this trend is so popular.

How much of this is marketing hype, how much is functional art, and how much of it is practically useful?
 
Depends on what the subjective definition of practicality of a knife would be. If you pry a lot, a thick folder may make sense. Although a fixed blade, multitool with flat screwdriver or a small prybar makes much more sense in that case. For me, there is no practical advantage in having a folder blade thicker than 2/16 inches.

But I do enjoy the feel and sound of an overbuilt folder mechanism working. They're fun.
 
I agree that a lot of it is marketing hype. I've seen some overbuilt folder disassemblies that reveal comically small pivots, or internal stop pin tracks that will undoubtedly compromise the blade.

I do think some overbuilt folders do it correctly. Hinderer is a good example - I think he has thought out where folders can fail, and compensated accordingly.
 
I do not understand knives like the Medfords and other monster blade knives. I compare this to the horsepower wars going on between car makers. You can now get a Dodge Challenger with 840 HP from the factory.
I am sure that 2% of the buyers will ever take advantage of it's power. I believe that it is the same in the knife world. I cannot see what usefulness these monster knives have in the real world.
 
In all honesty something like a Benchmade Bugout is probably plenty "overbuilt" for most uses. I think people are much more likely to run into issues like edge rolling/chipping than ever pushing that type of stop pin or locking mechanism to the point of failure. Funny how a lot of the "overbuilt" folders will use steels like 20CV that may be relatively brittle in terms of edge deformation.
I've never question whether one of the locks on my folder will stand up to me stabbing into a cardboard box. I occasionally get concerned if my edge will get dinged up cutting certain things. I'd rather have a blade that can cut well and hold a stable edge than one that could potentially pry a car door open or cut 20% more cardboard but require 4x the effort doing so.
 
shinyedges said:
Not that I completely disagree with marci, but that flavor of the month has lasted many many years. More like flavor of more than a decade. Just look at strider.
Click to expand...

Fair point, but for a long time Strider was pretty much the only game in town in that market, then, in the last couple years, in conjunction with the titanium flipper thing, those overbuilt slab things are everywhere and make Striders look like Opinels.
 
I only buy tough folders if they cut well. No folder needs to have over .187" blade stock, anything more is pointless. IMO Medford knives make me laugh every time I see them!
As far as locking mechanisms go, there are quite a few I would trust to do A LOT, but I trust ANY of my fixed blades more. Plus fixed blades are safer for those tough jobs, even if they did break. Folders breaking are unpredictable, can cause lot of damage, not worth the risk.
That said, before I really got into smaller fixed blades(blades smaller than machetes and choppers, 3-7 inch blades), I used my folders for those tough jobs. During the winter when I went out to feed the outside animals, I would break up the frozen drinking troughs with my folders. Full power stabs! Makes me cringe now! But, with that and countless other things I used them for, they never had a single problem! That is, the ones I trusted enough to do those things with.
 
They're 99.9% marketing. I honestly think a Spyderco Endura or Pacific Salt is realistically about as overbuilt as anyone will ever 'need' for anything besides tasks that really fall under outright abuse. That said, I really enjoy some fairly overbuilt folders and happily carry them, I just don't fool myself into thinking they're very practical or necessary. I do, however, compromise and pair them with a knife meant to cut and cut well. Today I'm carrying my overbuilt Hogue EX-01 for grins and my Spyderco Chaparral Lightweight for the real work. ;)
 
For me, I guess it really comes down more to how much I'd be out if I break a knife than speculating on how much more abuse one folder may be able to take. This is kind of the main selling point of Benchmade in my eyes. Not my favorite brand in terms of designs in general, but they have a good warranty in my eyes. If it cost more than a CRK to repair or replace if I lost it, I'm probably not going to enjoy using it as much. If it can't cut pretty well and I'm worried about carrying it and using it, what's the point?
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a knife that's a bit thicker than the usual suspects. A thick edge is tougher than a thin edge(obviously, I know). So if you need a knife that can cut through hard as hell material without rolling or chipping out, a more obtuse edge does have value.

To me it seems like a lot of makers are going way, way too thick as to where it's more of a cold chisel than blade, so there are limitations that I believe are being exceeded these days.
 
I think that what was considered as overbuilt 10 to 20 years ago has become kind of the norm, as a lot of modern production folders are quite beefy. I remember considering a Buck 110 as a very strong knife, a Spyderco Police as an insanely big blade... Even a Griptilian can be considered as overbuilt compared to 1990's standards. A CRK is definitely an overbuild knife to me.

What I now consider as “Overbuild”, and too thick for standard use, are Medford, Chaves... anything with a blade thicker than 3.5 mm actually.

It's mostly marketing tho, as bigger and meaner check the boxes of the tacticool crowd. You should peruse the green forum to get a better grasp of why foldable miniature prybar with cutting abilities are so popular... and here to stay.
 
overbuilt is ZT and up, Spyderco is the antithesis of "overbuilt". Even the Military lacks(my favorite Golden)prying prowess, and the Stretch (favorite Seki City) has no "redundancies" built in. only one i've seen looks overbuilt comes from taichung and has a .18" thick blade, can't remember the name, but it is beautiful(and expensive)!
It seems the phenom of the overbuilt folder is a recognition of Spyderco's mastery of understatement.
I don't own benchmades, though.
 
I consider my coldsteel 4max to be notably overbuilt. However the thickness of the triadlock and the blade stock justifies the term "overbuilt". It is the only folder I'd think could handle the majority of tasks a fixed blade could. However it wouldn't replace a fixed blade alternative were they less of a legal gray area in michigan. But it fills the role well. As for reduced cutting in overbuilt folders, that tends to be true. However the tall the blade, the more thinly ground you can bring the edge, making cutting certain media with the large folders fine. Of course cutting through media like cardboard is very difficult with these very tall and thick blades, so that is necessary to keep in mind. But the 4 max is also the only folder I've held which was nearly as comfortable as a fixed blade. And that alone makes it worth its weight for me.

All in all? Too overbuilt is probably in the eye of the beholder. Too heavy, too large, too awkward to use. Too ugly.
 
I had a cold steel sr1 folder. It was very overbuilt, but the hardware for the scales and pocket clip were a joke. they were so fine and thin they stripped out instantly when you tried to put them back in. theres a few threads on the cs section of the forums on it, one I started as well. it was also so thick and blocky the lock was so strong it was real tough to unlock. After I sold this knife it really led me to believe how unnecessary these huge overbuilt folders are. They just aren't practical for regular carry.I still have my zt0200 and bm adamas but that's as far as ill go on these giant overbuilt folders.My custom Demko is very smooth and much less bulky than a lot of these other folders,that ones not bad at all.
 
marcinek said:
Fair point, but for a long time Strider was pretty much the only game in town in that market, then, in the last couple years, in conjunction with the titanium flipper thing, those overbuilt slab things are everywhere and make Striders look like Opinels.
Click to expand...
True.
 
I sometimes have to cut some robust paper or a recalcitrant thread. I'm not taking any chances!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top