How to determine if a blade is a katana or wakizashi?

David Stifle

David Stifle

Joined
Nov 20, 2008
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Hi all,

I'm working on a couple of blades, one is a 20" blade so it's clearly a wakizashi; but the other blade is 25 inches. Is the 25 inche blade considered a katana, howbeit a shorter one? Thanks

Dave
 
AFAIK there's no bright line that separates katana from wakizashi. 25" isn't too weird for a katana, though, but it would be unusually long for a wakizashi.

- Chris

ETA: More important than blade size is handle size. If it's made for one hand, then it's a wakizashi (or a really old tachi), but if it's made for two hands then it's a katana.
 
Thanks Chris,

I originally forged the blade at 28", but had to shorten it to fit my tempering oven. I've now solved that problem, so I won't have to reduce the size of a blade again just to temper it. I was just curious as to where this blade fit.

I'll post pictures when it's show ready.

Dave
 
Your 28" blade is a Katana, that is if you are measuring it correctly. The overall length is not counted, only the nagasa, which is from the mune machi to the tip of the kissaki.
For a better understanding see the following link: http://yakiba.com/Nomenclature.htm

There are distinct measurements which determine the classifications of Tanto, Wakizashi, and Katana. As a general rule of thumb a Tanto is no longer than 12", Wakizashi is between 12" - 24", Katana over 24". Tachi typically fall under the same length guidelines as Katana, the difference being the way they are worn. Katana are worn edge up through the belt, Tachi edge down from a hanger.

If you want to be completely accurate the traditional Japanese measurement system of Shaku, Sun, Bu is used.
Tanto up to 1 shaku, Wakizashi between 1-2 Shaku, Katana in excess of 2 Shaku.
1 Shaku = 11.93"
1 Sun = 1.19299"
1 Bu = 0.1193"
 
SouthernComfort: Could you cite a reference for that? I've always read the 2 shaku line to be a really fuzzy one and only a generalization. If I'm wrong, I want to stop repeating it.
Thanks,
Chris
 
AFAIK there's no bright line that separates katana from wakizashi. 25" isn't too weird for a katana, though, but it would be unusually long for a wakizashi.
Click to expand...

SouthernComfort: Could you cite a reference for that? I've always read the 2 shaku line to be a really fuzzy one and only a generalization. If I'm wrong, I want to stop repeating it.
Click to expand...

Chris,
Just saw your post, been away for the weekend.
No offense meant but, Yes, you should stop giving that information as it is just wrong. There are definite length criteria for determining tanto, wakizashi, katana. Historically, during some of the earlier periods there were some minute semi exceptions to this rule such as "Sunnobi Tanto" or Ko-Wakizashi. However, today authentication papers are only given in the three designations, even for the exceptions mentioned.

References are no problem, as this is well documented and considered novice knowledge.

pg. 48 "The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords" by, Kokan Nagayama
pg. 2 "Glossary of Japanese Sword Terms" by, Dr. Gordon Robson Japanese Sword Society / US
Glossary "Nihonto Koza" by Dr. Junji Honma, Translated by Harry Watson
Pg. 46-47 "The Samurai Sword, A handbook" by John Yumoto

As well, I have included a photo of a set of papers issued from the "Nihonto Bijutsu Token Hozon Kai" or NBTHK.
This is the Sword preservation museum in Tokyo, whom are the most celebrated authorities on Japanese swords in the world.
I have highlighted in red the length of the sword clearly shown in Shaku, Sun, Bu.(see below)
11423paper copy.jpg

ETA: More important than blade size is handle size. If it's made for one hand, then it's a wakizashi (or a really old tachi), but if it's made for two hands then it's a katana.
Click to expand...

While, I don't really want to go into it, this is inaccurate as well.
 
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my rough rule is looking how thick the roll/edge bevel is for either one. the katana should have a thick and sturdy edge (as much as 1mm thickness just 1.0 mm going inwards.) the wakizashi is really just a long knife sp it should be keener and much lighter for a given length.
 
Handle length, roll/edge bevels, etc., etc., etc., have nothing to do with it.
I will say it one final time, LENGTH is the sole criteria for determining tanto, wakizashi, katana.

Keep in mind, I speak from a traditional view.
You could make a hatchet and call it a katana, but that doesn't make it one.

Technically, unless you are a swordsmith who is traditionally trained in Japan, using traditional methods and materials you are not making Katana. You are making a: Japanese style blade, Japanese influenced blade, Japanese like blade, Japanese reproduction in katana, wakizashi, or tanto length.

I do like what Hank wrote above which pretty much sums up what is made outside of Japan "really just a long knife".
ABSOLUTELY !!


my rough rule is looking how thick the roll/edge bevel is for either one.
Click to expand...
This is one of the main differences between Japanese and western style blades.
Most Western blades have this roll/edge bevel or whatever you want to call it. Japanese blades do not (with one exception). They are forged with one bevel from either the mune to the edge(Hira-zukuri) or from the shinogi(highlighted in red below) to the edge. The one exception is "Katakiriba"(bottom photo) which is shaped with a beveled edge on one side, such as seen in Japanese kitchen knives.

Here are a few examples of the edge geometry of the Japanese sword.

bladeshapes_hirazukuri.jpg
bladeshapes_shinogizukuri copy.jpg
bladeshapes_katakiriha.jpg
 
While I agree with Southern Comfort on length of blade being the only determining factor whether something is a katana, wakizashi, or tanto. I disagree that a katana made outside of Japan is not a katana. He is conflating "nihonto" with "katana." Nihonto is an authentic Japanese blade made by a certified Japanese smith, using traditional method and material (i.e. tahamagane) in Japan. Anyone, anywhere, can make a katana. Otherwise thousands of gunto made in Manchuria during the War would not be katana. The question is whether the blade, if forge outside of Japan, conform to the traditional form of a katana.
 
Nihonto is an authentic Japanese blade made by a certified Japanese smith, using traditional method and material (i.e. tahamagane) in Japan. Anyone, anywhere, can make a katana.
Click to expand...

Gomennasai. After re-reading my post, I stand corrected on this. As stated I speak from a traditional view, and was thinking in terms of Nihonto.

Technically, unless you are a swordsmith who is traditionally trained in Japan, using traditional methods and materials you are not making Katana.
Click to expand...
This should have read: making a true Japanese sword.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakizashi

Being a "smart arse" I thought I'd introduce some mud into the waters. The Chisagatana (merchants sword) could possibly be confused with an O-Wakizashi.
Secondly, Miyamoto Musashi carried Daisho of equal length, so one of them could nominally be thought of as a Wakizashi. But he made his own "rules".
 
parbajtor said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakizashi

Being a "smart arse" I thought I'd introduce some mud into the waters. The Chisagatana (merchants sword) could possibly be confused with an O-Wakizashi.
Secondly, Miyamoto Musashi carried Daisho of equal length, so one of them could nominally be thought of as a Wakizashi. But he made his own "rules".
Click to expand...

Except there was no rule at the time. The rule did not become codified until 1638. Musashi lived half of his life during the Waring Period and the other half during the Tokugawa Peace. During the Waring Period, one could call a sword anything one please. A person of any class could carry any weapon he wished. There was also far more social upward mobility than during the Tokugawa Regime.
 
musashi's self portrait
220px-P03jigazou.jpg
 
Being a "smart arse" I thought I'd introduce some mud into the waters. The Chisagatana (merchants sword) could possibly be confused with an O-Wakizashi.
Click to expand...

Chisagatana, sometimes called Koshigatana (hip sword) is an older term which was used to described swords whether tanto or wakizashi which predated the uchigatana and were mounted differently than Tachi ie; mounted like katana . Chisagatana literally means "short katana". Another term for chisagatana was Tsubagatana which meant sword with a tsuba. And as MKP stated above, The ban of carrying swords for non-Samurai wasn't in effect yet, so people of all social classes, who preferred shorter blades, would have chosen the chiisagatana/ koshigatana/ O-wakizashi/ tsubagatana. Many Ashigaru (foot soldiers) carried these as a backup for their naginata or yari.

Secondly, Miyamoto Musashi carried Daisho of equal length, so one of them could nominally be thought of as a Wakizashi. But he made his own "rules".
Click to expand...

Daisho of equal length ??
Somewhat of a contradiction in terms as the definition of Daisho is:
Dai = large
Sho = small

The school of Musashi, Niten Ichiryu (Two heavens as one school) continue to train with two swords, one long, one short.
Included is a photo of the current tenth generation headmaster of Niten Ichiryu, Sohke Imai Masayuki Nobukatsu seen wielding both katana and wakizashi length Boken.
Sohke.jpg
 
Wow SC, you really know your stuff! I never would have thought this topic could go so in depth.
shows what a newbie @ swordplay I am, thanks much for the info...

...and I have a whole new respect for LSU!
 
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