how to humble a proud tang?

samuraistuart

samuraistuart

Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
3,158
I am having an issue that maybe you guys with more experience can help me with, and that is keeping the wooden scales flush with the tang. The top part of the knife is not a problem, as the belt sander is able to keep everything flush. I run into this problem every time I go to finish the underside of the handle, where contours, curves, finger grooves are/would be. I have to go to hand sanding while finishing this area, and no matter what I do, I end up with a slightly proud tang. My backing is a piece of steel, both a flat and a round piece (no flex at all), and Rynowet paper wrapped very tightly. No matter how hard I concentrate on keeping my sanding strokes square to everything....I still end up with the problem. I really think the problem is the rocking motion I am putting in to it, even though I am trying so hard not to. I can use the Dremel to bring the slightly proud tang back flush with the scales, but I am left with cleaning up the scratches left by the dremel sanding drum. When I go to clean those scratches up....yep.....you guessed it. Back to square one.

If I had dremel sanding drums in 220, 400, 600 grit....that would solve the problem in a heart beat. I guess most guys have small wheel attachment with their grinder, or spindle sanders with finer grit paper? Like I said, no matter how slow, or how deliberate I try, my hand sanding of the area in question causes the tang to be slightly proud on the underside of the handle, especially close to the blade, where I don't want the dremel bumping into the blade (working on a petty kitchen knife at the moment). The wheel on my 4x36 grinder is over 2" in diameter, so I can't use it in tight radii. My only powered option is the dremel at the moment.

Any thoughts? Thanks so much!
 
Do you have a drill press ? If you do get the drums and go through the grits. Other than that .. Have you tried using a steel tube with paper on that ? I do that when I am doing my final hand sanding on my forged blades. I know the problem you are having and it is frustrating when you know something is not right and you know what to do to fix it but you don't have the right tool.
 
You can also order them from amazon. Probably not as good as the ones from the jewelry supplier but would do the job if you're on a budget because you can likely get them cheaper. I was just looking at them and they sell 100ct bags pretty cheap but they are not mixed only one grit. There were smaller mixed sets.

I honestly have the same problem so I can't offer much useful advice. I have had some success clamping the knife in the bench vise and putting the part I want to sand just above being flush with the vise so that when I sand to where I want to stop I'm hitting the lips on the vise preventing me from sanding to far and the surface fairly even. In general, I can keep the tang closer to level if I use a piece of 1/2" or so barstock as a sanding block and pull my sanding strokes towards me and parallel to the blade. Just takes longer that way.

If you use your drill press I'd caution you to not use a lot of pressure. A few times will not likely hurt anything but if you were to do this often, over time you run the risk of frying your main bearings.
 
Sanding drums can be had in several sizes that go on your drill press. Drill a hole slightly larger than the drum in a piece of plywood and you can grind perpendicular to the under side of your tang and make finger holes sharp. This is a picture of how I used to do it before I had a small wheel attachment. Larry

Y4WmtMll.jpg
 
The wheels that I profile the knife with work to remove scale excess. I use higher grits so that I do not remove a lot of metal and wind up reprofiling the knife handle and moving the pins off center.
 
The idea of using the drill press and sanding drums had crossed my mind. As a matter of fact, I did that once. Then I read that you shouldn't use a drill press for this...due to lateral forces that the drill press wasn't designed to see. Augus7us mentioned this very thing. While a heavy duty, decent horsepower, drill press would probably work just fine....mine is not heavy duty at all. Table top design...the cheapest one they had at the borg store. Already there is some "play" in it. Mark, yes, as mentioned one of my sandpaper backings for this area is a round steel rod. I think I need a spindle sander!
 
Are you wrapping the sandpaper around the steel rod multiple times? What I'm thinking is that if you spooled it around the rod a couple times the paper might mush around the hard tang(via path of least resistance) and hit the scales. This would cause the "proud tang" you're talking of.

I would try working up to the finest sanding drum you can and then possibly hand sand. You could just use your index finger and drag it down the dang to get the finish right. It might take a while but I bet it would work.
 
Samuraistuart, Maybe you shouldn't use a drill press for this but I profiled hundreds on blades this way on a $120 Skil benchtop drill press from Lowe's which I still use. Here is a photo of the horizontal grinder I use now for that purpose and the result is the same as with sanding drums except that I don't have to change the sanding sleeves all the time now. Go ahead and do it until you can afford a 2 x72 grinder with a small wheel attachment. Just my opinion. Larry

bqb2Q22l.jpg
 
LARRYZ10 said:
Samuraistuart, Maybe you shouldn't use a drill press for this but I profiled hundreds on blades this way on a $120 Skil benchtop drill press from Lowe's which I still use. Here is a photo of the horizontal grinder I use now for that purpose and the result is the same as with sanding drums except that I don't have to change the sanding sleeves all the time now. Go ahead and do it until you can afford a 2 x72 grinder with a small wheel attachment. Just my opinion. Larry

bqb2Q22l.jpg
Click to expand...

I would really like a horizontal grinder setup. I might try and convert my KMG to flip sideways. The only problem is the thing weighs a ton and I'm wondering if it would be nimble enough to accomplish. On the other hand, if I got another dedicated horizontal grinder, I'd probably want a variable speed drive so it'd likely end up costing me an arm and a leg. What speed do you run you horizontal on? Also, I've found that if I press too hard on my small wheels they kind of mush around the tang leaving it "proud." Have you experienced this?

To the OP, I've seen kits that convert your drill press into a drum sander. They have a piece that connects via the chuck and bolts into the table. The table then absorbs the sideways pressure rather than the drill press. I'm not sure but I would think it would have to have bearings. If you don't use something like this I'd just try not to press too hard. Not only would it be easier on the press, I think it might be the cause of the proud tang.
 
JG, I use a KMG grinder as my primary grinder and I just hold my blades vertical (on the small wheel) to profile the underside. I am assuming that you have the small wheel attachment. If you use a more aggressive grit of belt when you sand your scales and tang together you will get a clean cut. Just don't press too hard. Then you can lightly sand with a finer grit. Just touch the knife lightly to the small wheel and keep inspecting it for squareness and depth. Save your pennies for a KBAC 27D. I bought my last one for $375 including tax and shipping. Variable speed is such a nice thing for knife makers that I would budget hard to get it. I only have this horizontal grinder now because I was dying to build a Polar Bear Forge grinder and going horizontal was the excuse. You really don't need it in my opinion. I have seen KMG's mounted horizontal but it is a little troublesome to do and I would save your money for a VFD instead. Larry
 
LARRYZ10 said:
JG, I use a KMG grinder as my primary grinder and I just hold my blades vertical (on the small wheel) to profile the underside. I am assuming that you have the small wheel attachment. If you use a more aggressive grit of belt when you sand your scales and tang together you will get a clean cut. Just don't press too hard. Then you can lightly sand with a finer grit. Just touch the knife lightly to the small wheel and keep inspecting it for squareness and depth. Save your pennies for a KBAC 27D. I bought my last one for $375 including tax and shipping. Variable speed is such a nice thing for knife makers that I would budget hard to get it. I only have this horizontal grinder now because I was dying to build a Polar Bear Forge grinder and going horizontal was the excuse. You really don't need it in my opinion. I have seen KMG's mounted horizontal but it is a little troublesome to do and I would save your money for a VFD instead. Larry
Click to expand...

Oh I have a KBAC 27d VFD with my KMG, I was just saying in regards to getting another grinder as a dedicated horizontal. I would need a VFD for that too.
 
JG, You have everything you REALLY need to make your steel look good when finishing. Trust me. I am still using my KMG to do this because I don't want to tip the other grinder horizontal and get the attachments out. I will use the new grinder only if the thing is already set up like in the photo. I was serious when I said I only put the new grinder together because I wanted to build one for months and I sold some high dollar knives. Everyone who reads my opinions here knows that I am a major fan of the KMG grinder. ( Not to slight any of the other great grinders like the Esteem, Wilmont, the TW-90, Pheer, Burr King, Bader and Hardcore, etc.) Larry P.S. The Grinder in a box that I built seems to be a fine grinder and very solid also as well as being fun to build and a lot cheaper than most professional grinders . LL
 
It's really nice to be able to go back and forth between the two tho.Kmg does not offer the
horizontal at this time.
 
After doing more talking with friends about this issue....I think I am going to use the drill press and go with light pressure. JG....I don't wrap the paper around the steel rod multiple times...as that would surely exacerbate my problem! Good suggestion, tho! But the paper is right against the steel rod. Seems like I saw a video of a guy making his own drum sanders to use in his drill press out of wooden dowels....enabling him to use whatever sandpaper he wants to. Warren....that is an idea I may look into as well. Pretty handy sanding machine, there! Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
You can cut strips of normal sandpaper (rhynowet) and attach them to these drums in any grit you want.. http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-quick-change-sanding-drum-set-35455.html ... I'm thinking about getting them for the same reason, and many due to the lack of higher grits available. I remember talkin to a guy at HF a few years ago who used them and I asked him if the "hump" where the sandpaper is folded into the drum will leave an wonky finish and he said "nope". It might be worth a shot, but the reviews aren't all the best. Also check out supergrit, they have all kinds of drums and abrasives and accessories etc. I just now thought of that actually and am bout to take a look myself. :cool:

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
 
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I went and searched Rio Grande like Greg suggested and found these drum sleeves http://www.riogrande.com/Product/3M-Sanding-Band-Kit/337506?Pos=140 .. they go up to 320 grit.. Just give a look at everything in the "finishing" sections and I'm sure you will find a number a things you might be able to use.. Right here.. http://www.riogrande.com/category/tools-and-equipment/120/polishing-and-finishing/118/Abrasives/270 ..

Also, here are a couple of pics of my crude drill press sanding "set up" ,, you can raise and lower the table to use up different sections of the sanding sleeves but this is just to give you an idea of what you "could" do :D . I just drilled out a hole with a piece of wood I had using a hole saw and used the smaller drum to make the hole big enough to fit that big 2" drum (The soft wood also helps keep from scratching the blade like the rough metal table would do) Also, the thicker (taller) the material you use, the more use of the entire length of the sleeve you'll be able to get by adjusting the table height, unless the hole in the middle of your table is large enough to allow the drum to pass through it, then the thickness doesn't really matter.





Hope that helps some :)

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
 
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Stuart, you can use a live center for the drill press as well. It helps support the spindle.
 
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