How to improve knife designs?

A

Andy Johnston

Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
189
Hey guys. The more that I've been looking at my knife designs the more that I realize that they are impractical or just plain ugly. The knife I am working on for my first knife w.i.p is guilty of that with the handle. Is there any books that I could read on the subject of design? I have been told a lot of times to look at other makers that I like and design based off of the elements in their knives you like. Good advice, but my designs always seem to turn out a lot uglier when I do that. Just wondering if there is any tools/resources out there to help me learn a bit more about over all knife design. If it helps I like the looks of drop point hunters/skinners or edc utility type knives. Thanks again guys. Always giving great advice. Its a little overwhelming at times actually :p but I appreciate it.
 
Your best tool is your eyes. The second tool is a pad of paper and a bunch of sharp pencils. A ruler and a French curve help, to.

Draw, change, re-draw, etc. The design will slowly change into a better shape. Posting the design in Shoptalk when you can't see any changes left will get a lot of advice on other tweaks.
 
Knife porn. Lots and lots of knife porn.
Seriously though, look at a lot of knife designs and try to copy them on paper and then make slight adjustments.
 
Like the other guys said as much knife porn as your eyes can take, but also I think a very important part of understanding good design is to get out there and use them. Chop,slice, hack, throw, carry, pry, dig, whittle and then cut some more, using a knife will tell you a lot more about the suitability of the design than just gawpin at it for hours.
I once read somewhere I think it was from Bob Dozier, that when you've finished a knife use it to whittle the end off a broom handle, and you'll find out a lot about handle ergo's blade geometry and the design in general. But yeah knife porn is always good.
 
A lot of newer makers make a lot of the same basic design mistakes:

-Handles too thick. A knife handle doesn't need to be all that thick to be comfortable. Most of my full tangs handles are around 1/2 inch wide total (when looked at from the top) and 3/4 to 1 1/4 tall. More meat is surprisingly unnecessary.
-Handles are too blocky. Think oval. Like, really flat oval. This goes along with the above. Though there are definite and important exceptions, I try not to leave any flat planes on the side of a knife unless I'm doing it on purpose. Curves look better, as most males can tell you.
-Too bent. Drop points are nice, but if you look closely at a lot of popular designs, most of them are really pretty straight overall, with just the POINT being dropped (hence the name?).
-Too complicated. There is a time and place for a knife that can do some of everything. Most knives, however, should strive to be REALLY good at one (or maybe two) things. Determin a purpose for your design, and then put every conceivable design element through the fire of that purpose. Keep it simple.
-Poor flow. Draw it on cardboard, cut it out, and look at it in silhouette with strong backlighting. It's easier to see how the parts work together when you can't really see the individual parts. There shouldn't be any unexpected protrusions or abrupt transitions that take away from the flow.

I agree with everything everyone else has said so far. I'm sure I've not said everything that could be said.
 
That is some good advice. I'm working on my first to but I find my self saving pictures of knives I like or like a feature of the knife. I have a folder on my phone since I use tapatalk mainly and save all kinds of pics of knives to it. Then go back and look at for reference.
 
Pick up every knife you see and look at it. Hold it and turn it over in your hands. Make a note (mental or otherwise) about everything you like and don't like about it. Look at the knife gallery and knifemaker's gallery subforums here every day. Look at as many knives as you can, and really think about what it is that you're looking at. Don't think too hard about the materials, but pay close attention to the shapes. Find out what the popular knives are in the genre that you want to make, and why people like them. Go out of your way to use knives — both the types of knives that you plan on making and the types of knives you don't plan on making. Draw hundreds of designs. Realize that you aren't good at this yet, and honestly compare your knives to those of others. Start with a pattern that someone else came up with and start redrawing lines — the design will eventually become yours. Don't be afraid to make poorly-designed knives. A lot of people come here and spend weeks refining their first design before they pick up a hacksaw. You will learn more from holding and using a knife you made and being honest with yourself about its flaws than you will learn by having the people on this board redesign it for you.
My favorite books on knife design are as follows:
Bladesmithing with Murray Carter
101 knife designs — practical knives for daily use (also by Murray Carter)
Knife Talk 1 and 2 by Ed Fowler
Living on the Edge — Logos of the Loveless Legend (not a lot of discussion about knife design, but lots of good photographs that can be turned into patterns)

- Chris
 
Andy you don't need help from anyone with knife design, theres no magic thats
going to jump out at you. Yeah look at other knives draw them,And most of all
do what Stacy said- Paper, pencils, --- and get serious.
Ken.
 
Look at the classic antique designs from Solingen or Sheffield ,then see what you like and try to subtly emphasize those features ,while keeping your overall designs in the spirit of those older designs.
 
And when you've come up with a sketch you like and you want to know what it will look like and feel like, make a model of your design out of scrap wood or cardboard. Then give it a make believe trial run in your hand.
 
Purge these thoughts from your mind when designing:

"I want to use as much of the steel as possible!"

"I want to make the grinding as easy as possible!"

"I am not confident I can actually pull something like that off."

"I want to make something ultra-awesome and original; something nobody has ever seen before."

"I want to make a battle ready mirror polished sword."

"I should start with the thickest piece of steel, at least a quarter inch thick... maybe a half inch would be better."

"I want to put all my favorite features into one ultra cool knife, and then add file work and mosaic pins."

- Greg
 
I'm still very early on in the game and am climbing the steep learning curve. That said, my first knives were REALLY ugly. I made a few, looked at them, figured out WHY they were ugly, tossed them in a dark corner of my shop and made a couple more. These weren't quite as ugly so I looked at them for a longer period of time and then tossed them in the same dark corner. The knives I make now aren't ugly any more, some of them actually look pretty nice. I figure a few more cycles and I'll be approaching really nice looking knives.

Learn from your mistakes. When you're not happy with a knife, figure out why and then don't make the same mistake.

I made my handles too short and too skinny at first. My blades were blocky and there was no continuous flow throughout the knife. I still make an ugly one every now and again.

my $0.02
 
LucyCustomKnives said:
Add: "I have to fit the design into x sized piece of steel." :)


-Eric
Click to expand...

unless you order a butt load of steel stock with a width slightly too narrow for the designs you have spent years working on... ask me how I know :rolleyes: ...Just saying sometimes 1 1/2" isn't always enough for a 1 1/2" wide blade, lol
 
rustyrazor said:
unless you order a butt load of steel stock with a width slightly too narrow for the designs you have spent years working on... ask me how I know :rolleyes: ...Just saying sometimes 1 1/2" isn't always enough for a 1 1/2" wide blade, lol
Click to expand...

That is a very good point. Unless it is precision ground steel, be prepared to possibly lose a little off each side where the steel has been sheared. At least if you are expecting a specific uniform thickness at full width...

-Eric
 
First, I think of knives as feminine. I try to draw every knife with sexy ladylike curves. I think this is paramount. Straight lines on knives are boring for the most part.

Always 'Poop Check' a design. Make an anus with your thumb and forefinger. Hold the handle pointed down. Does the profile of the butt of your handle resemble poop emerging from your fist? Is your handle a big round knob? Uk. Re-design to a canoe, bird beak, fish tail or any of the other historical handle termination patterns.

There are also trick rules. Like not having a pin off center to the south side of the tang. It can be a smidge off center to the north, but if its off center to the south, change strategies and drill small holes around the perimeter. Its harder to see error on small holes around the perimeter anyway.
 
You're still working with hand tools, right? (Trying to remember your comments from your other threads. ).

Keep your first couple of knives fairly simple. Especially if you are going to be hand filing, keep the blade to 3 or 3.5 inches. That's still a good working length. Handle 4.25 to 4.75 inches long. Blade height 3/4 to an inch. Keep to thin stock if doing stock removal, I like 1/8 inch.

Remember, most knife designs have been done before. If it hasn't been done in the history of man there is probably a reason.

If you can get it, Tim Creighton has a good beginners book with some simple knife projects to get someone started.

For your first couple of blades I might even go so far as to suggest that you find a pattern and just focus on making a knife and work on design later.
 
I think you can improve knife designs the same way artists learn


Look at some

Try it yourself

Look at what you did with a critical eye

Let others look at what you did with a critical eye.

Do more.
 
12345678910 said:
I think you can improve knife designs the same way artists learn


Look at some

Try it yourself

Look at what you did with a critical eye

Let others look at what you did with a critical eye.

Do more.
Click to expand...


^^^ That right there about sums it all up :thumbup:

It can be a difficult thing to make a good looking knife, but a very easy thing to make a knife-like object. I was REALLY good at the beginning with making the latter, getting slowly better at the former. I found it to be an interesting transition when I began "knowing" that something just didn't look right, but I had a heck of a time figuring out what was wrong. It was pretty frustrating, but at the same time, it's progress-you understand that something isn't right. If you get stumped, you find someone better than you and try to cheat-ask them what's wrong ;). Seriously, though-that's a really good way to learn and it follows what's been said above.

Give yourself some grace, know you're making progress, and enjoy the ride.


Jeremy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top