How to measure blade length?

[gamma_nyc]

With so many laws incorporating blade length, how does one measure to be sure they are on spec with their local law?

Here in CT, the law refers to “sharpened edge” of up to 4”. Is that 4” in a straight line, or do you measure the perimeter of the edge of the belly of the blade (which is longer)?

 

[killgar]

You illustrate the problem- there is no one standard for every jurisdiction. In some places the law might be referring to just the sharpened edge, in others, the entire length of the blade.

My advice, when in doubt, measure the entire length of the blade, in a straight line, from where the blade meets the handle or bolster, to the very tip of the blade. Basically, the longest straight line measurement possible.

And if the law says, for example, no blades over 4" long, don't even think of carrying a blade 4 1/8th inches long. One might say "But it's just a fraction of an inch longer. Who's gonna care". Well, the law, and those responsible for interpreting it, are hyper-technical, especially when their only motivation is getting convictions.

That extra 1/8th of an inch could very well land a person in a jail cell.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

CT is the only place I know of that uses that definition.

Every other jurisdiction I know of uses killgar's example - straight line distance from the tip of blade to the front of the guard, or where a guard would be if it had a guard.

On a folding knife, that would be to the front of the forward-most bolster or the front of the handle scale if no bolster is present.

 

[Man with no name]

You illustrate the problem- there is no one standard for every jurisdiction. In some places the law might be referring to just the sharpened edge, in others, the entire length of the blade.

My advice, when in doubt, measure the entire length of the blade, in a straight line, from where the blade meets the handle or bolster, to the very tip of the blade. Basically, the longest straight line measurement possible.

And if the law says, for example, no blades over 4" long, don't even think of carrying a blade 4 1/8th inches long. One might say "But it's just a fraction of an inch longer. Who's gonna care". Well, the law, and those responsible for interpreting it, are hyper-technical, especially when their only motivation is getting convictions.

That extra 1/8th of an inch could very well land a person in a jail cell.

Excellent advice! When dealing with "the law" it's usually best to err on the side of caution. Why give the cops and courts an opportunity to hang a case on you. Hell, even when you follow the law to a T, there are still bad actors that will run you through the system just because they can.

 

[Bastler]

I wouldn't count on law enforcement to accurately measure anything. I watched a Texas cop bend a plastic ruler from hell to breakfast in an attempt to determine that my Buck 110 blade exceeded the five inch statutory limit. He put on a rather comical, albeit tedious, show.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

I wouldn't count on law enforcement to accurately measure anything. I watched a Texas cop bend a plastic ruler from hell to breakfast in an attempt to determine that my Buck 110 blade exceeded the five inch statutory limit. He put on a rather comical, albeit tedious, show.

Where was that? All the cops I knew in central Texas over a 30 year EMT career didn't carry rulers. They would simply pulled out a $1 bill (6 inches long) and compared it to the blade. Their attitude was if it was 6 inches or more, it was over the 5-1/2 inch maximum and the judge wouldn't throw their case out. If it was shorter than a dollar, they didn't care, unless it was double edged or a switch, and then the length didn't matter.

When Texas did away with all the knife laws (switches and double edge legal, any length legal, knuckles OK, etc) most were happy they didn't have to deal with them any longer. Now all they have to do is measure a knife's length if the location is one where state law says you can't carry a concealed hand gun.

 

[Bastler]

Where was that? All the cops I knew in central Texas over a 30 year EMT career didn't carry rulers. They would simply pulled out a $1 bill (6 inches long) and compared it to the blade. Their attitude was if it was 6 inches or more, it was over the 5-1/2 inch maximum and the judge wouldn't throw their case out. If it was shorter than a dollar, they didn't care, unless it was double edged or a switch, and then the length didn't matter.

When Texas did away with all the knife laws (switches and double edge legal, any length legal, knuckles OK, etc) most were happy they didn't have to deal with them any longer. Now all they have to do is measure a knife's length if the location is one where state law says you can't carry a concealed hand gun.

That was in Victoria in 1978. He was an extremely thin man with an N-frame Smith and Wesson on each hip. I suspected that had he only carried one, he would have tipped over. The first thing he asked me, after he spit on the ground, was if I had a horn on my motorcycle. He then inspected my tyre tread and headlight, before measuring my Buck knife. I got quite an earful about my horn, tyres, headlight and knife, but he didn't give me a ticket. During our encounter, I developed the opinion that his little performance was a means of compensating for some deficiency. I prudently chose to not share my opinion with him.

 

[Tjstampa]

I know a LEO who has a Taylor tape measure so he can measure the whole sharpened length so he can use that to upgrade any charges when he books someone. I do know that the current judges always throw that out.

 

[rp5]

As the average citizen, you get 0% of the authority on how long the blade is and 100% of the consequences if it's deemed to be over the limit. Any two LEOs may measure completely differently, and if you're trying to follow a law, you need to be prepared for the guy measuring irrationally. Again - you get 100% of the consequences whether their measurement is right or wrong. Measure the longest way possible, and don't chance nearing the limit. Or carry what you want and deal with the potential results.

 

[Tjstampa]

A better idea is to try to carry under the legal limit and try not to do anything that the police will notice and arouse their suspicion. If you do have an interaction with an officer being polite goes a long way. Leave the arguing for the court.

 

[David Mary]

If you do have an interaction with an officer being polite goes a long way.

Agreed. For all we know the officer just pulled a new mother out of a wreck only to have to tell her the baby didn't make it. We don't know what they deal with so let's not make it harder - or more dangerous - for them, or ourselves, by being rude or combative.

 

[skippyW]

It doesn't matter what the precise meaning of the law in your state is. It matters what your particular LEO thinks it means and what kind of day he is having.

You can beat the rap but you cant beat the ride.

 

[killgar]

It doesn't matter what the precise meaning of the law in your state is. It matters what your particular LEO thinks it means and what kind of day he is having.

You can beat the rap but you cant beat the ride.

Actually, "the precise meaning of the law" matters A LOT.

I've met and known many LEO's (most good, some bad), but I've never known any who were willing to arrest someone for something that wasn't a crime. Officers on the street do not operate with impunity, they have to answer for every decision they make, and they can pay a price if they decide wrong.

Arresting a person who hasn't broken the law is a violation of their Constitutional rights. And there is no shortage of civil attorneys who would salivate at the thought of suing a city, county, and the LEO themselves for a clear case of a Constitutional rights violation. According to the civil attorney I used in my contracting business, such cases typically end quickly with a decent settlement check (costs them more to fight the lawsuit).

Ask any LEO who has been sued for a wrongful arrest how much they liked it. It's safe to assume it's not an enjoyable experience.

If people know their local laws, if they know their Constitutional rights, if they know how to conduct themselves when stopped by an LEO and don't give the LEO attitude, they should have no worries about being arrested and taken to jail when no crime has been committed.

I've known people who encountered LEO's with bad attitudes, but because the people made it clear (politely) that they knew the law, and their rights, the LEO's recognized it was not in their own interests to "mess" with them, and sent them on their way.

If you're stopped by an LEO, and the LEO clearly doesn't know the knife laws and is about to make a mistake, or intentionally violate your rights, ask for them to call their supervisor. Their supervisor should be riding around in a patrol vehicle supervising the other patrol officers (just like any supervisor at any business keeps tabs on employees). Their supervisor will have a lot more experience and knowledge of the law, and there will be less chance of a wrongful arrest, or confiscation of legal property.

Of course, if a person just goes through life with the attitude "cops suck", then I wouldn't expect any encounter they have with the cops to end well, regardless of their knowledge of the law or their rights.

 

[skippyW]

killgar, if you took my post as disparaging law enforcement you are dead wrong.

 

[killgar]

killgar, if you took my post as disparaging law enforcement you are dead wrong.

Nope, not disparaging law enforcement. Just wrong about the precise meaning of the law not mattering.

 

[spoonrobot]

Actually, "the precise meaning of the law" matters A LOT.

I've met and known many LEO's (most good, some bad), but I've never known any who were willing to arrest someone for something that wasn't a crime. Officers on the street do not operate with impunity, they have to answer for every decision they make, and they can pay a price if they decide wrong.

Arresting a person who hasn't broken the law is a violation of their Constitutional rights. And there is no shortage of civil attorneys who would salivate at the thought of suing a city, county, and the LEO themselves for a clear case of a Constitutional rights violation. According to the civil attorney I used in my contracting business, such cases typically end quickly with a decent settlement check (costs them more to fight the lawsuit).

Ask any LEO who has been sued for a wrongful arrest how much they liked it. It's safe to assume it's not an enjoyable experience.

If people know their local laws, if they know their Constitutional rights, if they know how to conduct themselves when stopped by an LEO and don't give the LEO attitude, they should have no worries about being arrested and taken to jail when no crime has been committed.

I've known people who encountered LEO's with bad attitudes, but because the people made it clear (politely) that they knew the law, and their rights, the LEO's recognized it was not in their own interests to "mess" with them, and sent them on their way.

If you're stopped by an LEO, and the LEO clearly doesn't know the knife laws and is about to make a mistake, or intentionally violate your rights, ask for them to call their supervisor. Their supervisor should be riding around in a patrol vehicle supervising the other patrol officers (just like any supervisor at any business keeps tabs on employees). Their supervisor will have a lot more experience and knowledge of the law, and there will be less chance of a wrongful arrest, or confiscation of legal property.

Of course, if a person just goes through life with the attitude "cops suck", then I wouldn't expect any encounter they have with the cops to end well, regardless of their knowledge of the law or their rights.

Tens of thousands of people get arrested every year for crimes they did not commit or laws the arresting police officer did not understand. I know because I was one of them. Civil rights lawsuits are almost always taken on contingency unless there is extremely damning circumstances or very poor optics on video. Many times the person wrongly arrested has the choice between doing nothing or paying tens of thousands of dollars to an attorney only to receive no compensation and make the no impact on future law enforcement behavior. A wrongful arrest never really goes away either. My career is continually negatively impacted from a wrongful arrest I had more than a decade ago. The civil rights attorneys I talked to said there was nothing they could do due to qualified immunity. To say nothing of the thousands of dollars I lost having to hire an attorney to represent myself, the time wasted as my life stalled wondering if I was going to prison as an innocent man, all because a police officer and then a senior detective did not understand the law and refused to believe evidence I presented them.

Don't ever talk to the police unless absolutely forced to and record every encounter you may have with them from word one. Understand that if you are forced to deal with a police officer, they can destroy your life for any reason, real or perceived.

 

[rp5]

Not disparaging LEOs as a generality - as you said, some are great and others less so. My point is that you need to be prepared for the worst... which is probably why you carry a knife in the first place.

 

[Man with no name]

And some cops will knowingly violate your rights and abuse their authority without any fear of reprisal then lie about it in their report and court testimony because they know that in the end it is your word against theirs. The courts are no help either as they typically side with the officer(s) version of events.