How to patina a carbon steel blade using mustard

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I did my US Marshall in hot (not quite boiling) vinegar.
IIRC it was in the vinegar for about an hour.
Fine steel wool afterwards and now the temper line shows :D

Also this was probably 800 or 1000 grit finished before it went for the dip...FWIW.
 
Anyone got any pictures of a knife they put this mustard patina on? I am thinking about refinishing a barrel on a CVA musket I, built but wanted to see what the finished product looked like first.
 
This reminds me; back in the late 1980's I bought a SW 36 .38 snubnose 2nd Amd Comm. model, one of 2000. A very pretty revolver, gold inscription of our 2nd Amd. on the sideplete, a show piece. I was carrying it in my belt under a leather jacket. Bought a large saurkraut hot dog for lunch. A couple hours later I notice a piece of saurkraut had fallen in to my jacket (yes I'm a messy eater), and laid across the backstrap of the grip. When I pulled it off, the deep rich SW blue came off as well. I was NOT happy with myself. Like a fool, I traded it off.
 
Y'all are mentioning things I've never even known to try! :thumbup: I'm gonna start some experiments... :D
 
Absolutely, this thread rocks.

I do have a question, though... in my experiment with "CarbonV" and lemon juice, there was an unmistakable odor that got stronger for the first hour or so, then stayed the same. It smelled very much like a home-perm. Clearly a by-product of the reaction between the juice and the steel... anyone know what this is, and if it's something to be concerned about?
 
Guitardemon, I browned the barrel of a Brown Bess smoothbore musket, just threw the barrel out onto the lawn in the acid rain for about a week. It now has a beautiful brown patina. Left the lock "in the white".
 
Regarding etchants:

A patina is an oxide layer you are building up. It is "rust" , if you will.
You are doing this in a controlled way to build up an even layer, and the removing the catalyst (the thing causing the rust). Leaving you with a thin layer of patina or a finish. It's the steel in the blade reacting with the acid, so it's an iron oxide layer.

An etchant is actually almost the opposite. It is "eating" into the metal, cleaning off oxides as well as metal itself.
Etchants can be used just before finishing or painting a problem metal (like aluminum) in order to get good adherance.
In the case of anodizing aluminum I etch the aluminum first, then immediately proceed to the anno bath.

The reason a metal looks "parkerized" after etching it is that you have created millions of microscopic holes in the surface, giving it that "flat" look.
You have increased surface area, since it now has more texture. if you looked under a microscope you would see bumps, hills , valleys.

An etchant might be a good thing to use if you are re-finishing a surface, and want to start from scratch, etch off the old finish, then apply the new finish. Etching to me, is like a chemical bead blaster.

Hint: to etch aluminum, even annodized aluminum, get some crystal drano, mix up a batch, tblspn to a quart ratio should be enough.
Soak the aluminum piece. After 10 mins or so you can actually start to wipe off the the annoed oxide layer. [Caution it's caustic, so wear rubber gloves if you still want skin on your fingers] if it's not annoed, simply wash it first and rinse, then stick it in the drano bath, inspecting regularly. You will be able to tell when it's fully etched based on the flat gray look. If you were to leave it over night it would just keep eating the aluminum away and you would have a problem. That is for aluminum, because I know aluminum.

For a carbon steel blade you could probably use muratic acid, but check on that first, check the amount, % concentration needed, and time frames.

If you etch first, then your patina/finish is likely to come out deeper / richer, but more of a flat finish, if you like that look. The big plus will be you should be able ot get a very uniform look.
 
Skunk, great information, thank you!

I'm still fascinated with this mustard thing, doing it right now to my Mora computer survival black-ops pickle stabber.
 
Okay, I did the mustard trick on my Mora...the colors came out orange and black and blue...reminds me of the case hardening on my shotgun receiver. But I'm still not getting a deep rich black or brown...is it just a matter of time...I haven't tried peeing on it yet. Soaking in more acid? as in lemon juice or vinegar?
 
Wash it with a good dish washing liquid in really hot water, dry it well, then slice and dice some strong white onions. You may still have oil in the pores of the steel. And also, mustard contains oil.

Codger
 
I just handed my girlfriend a shopping list including mustard and vinegar. Heh.

Anyone else had experience getting a case-hardened kind of look, like Coldwood described? I think that would look great.
 
Actually, Gibson, it doesn't look bad. I'm thinking about leaving it like so until I get tired of it.

But thanks, Codger, I will get around to doing the white onions.
 
GibsonFan said:
Anyone else had experience getting a case-hardened kind of look, like Coldwood described? I think that would look great.
Click to expand...

I have a cheap Irish Imperial slipjoint that got that almost-case-hardened look by using the paper towel/white vinegar method I mentioned earlier. It had some patina before the treatment, however.
 
Seems like it varies quite a bit depending on the actual steel and the acid you use... just have to play around and see what works, I guess.
 
Seems like it varies quite a bit depending on the actual steel and the acid you use... just have to play around and see what works, I guess.
Click to expand...
Yup, that's the crux of the matter. The weather in your area can affect the outcome, as well; when I was working with brass and copper, we'd always get a deeper, richer patina when the weather was cool, cloudy, and damp. I can't help but suspect the same is true with steel.
 
Where can someone get ferric acid? Will a Lowe's or Home Depot carry this?
 
Hey guys, here is the place I go when I have a technical questions.
There are some really knowledgeable and helpful "pros" there.
Enough reading for the entire winter.
http://www.finishing.com/

Find their Q&A section, which is basically a forum, and search your topic, chances are they have already answered your question.

I use Caswell as my supplier, they handle a variety of plating, finishing and anodizing supplies.
http://www.caswellplating.com/

Cold Blueing, via the Birchwood Casey products is about the cheapest, easiest, repeatable way to treat steel that I know of.

Black Oxiding is another very cool finish. There is a Black Oxide KIT for $42 at Caswell. Make's over a gallon of the solution..more than enough for knives and small pieces.
http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm

As with all jobs a lot of it is in the prep work. The cleaner you can make the steel the better. from the moment you dry it off, it starts oxidizing on it's own, so, I find the best thing is to clean thoroughly, and go right for finishing step...don't leave it overnight. Rust Never Sleeps.

Also, big hint: Wash your hand thoroughly, twice even.
The oils from your skin will affect the finish should you handle the piece between cleaning and finishing. Cheapo latex gloves work, but, make sure you wash them, like washing your hands, to get the powder or any impurities off of them too.

Temperature and humidity do affect finishes.
Room temps and lower humidty helps.
 
Results: Here are the two Mora Clippers I bought recently, Kolstal high carbon blades. The one on top is untreated, just a light coat of oil. The bottom one got the mustard trick. Then I did what Codger suggested, but I didn't have a white onion, so I cut the white tip off a green scallion..rubbed it in good:

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Then I put the rest of the scallion on a piece of bread, sliced up some meatloaf, spread some ketchup, salt and pepper, and ate it.

Then I wiped the bottom blade clean with lemon juice. I think this is probably about as dark as this particular blade is going to get. We'll see. But it's fine for me for this blade. Others will probably have better results with other carbon blades. Thanks for all the input guys, this was an interesting experiment ;)
 
Dammm you ColdWood!! Taunting me with those inexpensive, but very nice Moras, yet again. :rolleyes:

The temptation had all but passed, and now, it is back with a vengeance. :eek:

Nice finish you got there.
 
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