Recommendation? HT furnace 50/60 HZ - electrical question

[HSC ///]

since I don't understand electricity well...

Can I run this furnace in France where there is 50HZ ?
my understanding is in France - standard voltage is 230 V and the frequency is 50 Hz

I've queried the company but they are likely closed for holidays till Monday

thank you

from the manual

 

[000Robert]

It seems to me that it would be fine, but I don't mess with mains power. My advice is to ask a licensed electrician.

 

[Scaniaman]

Is this meant to run on single phase? 4880 W requires a 21-22 amp fuse..I am in a 50 Hz 230 V country, and you cannot get that on single phase. My furnace is even more W, but I run it on 400 V three phase 3x 16 amp fuses.

 

[HSC ///]

Is this meant to run on single phase? 4880 W requires a 21-22 amp fuse..I am in a 50 Hz 230 V country, and you cannot get that on single phase. My furnace is even more W, but I run it on 400 V three phase 3x 16 amp fuses.

Yes single phase

 

[ferider]

since I don't understand electricity well...

Can I run this furnace in France where there is 50HZ ?
my understanding is in France - standard voltage is 230 V and the frequency is 50 Hz

I've queried the company but they are likely closed for holidays till Monday

thank you

from the manual

Hi, Swiss/German Electrical Engineer here.

Yes you can run it on a single 230V / 50 Hz phase.

But like S Scaniaman mentions, check your supply’s Wattage. Might need to use 2 or 3 phases.

 

[Scaniaman]

Ok. So with an american single phase furnace you'll be fine with up to 3600 W here. Given you run the correct gauge wires to a 16 A fuse.
I did all the research when I was contemplating to import an Evenheat LB 22.5 from the US, which is 3600 W. Above those W, I could not figure out a way to run it of 1 phase here in Sweden...

 

[Scaniaman]

But theoretically you could run it of a 21-22 amp fuse, single phase, given the correct wireing...So check what are the details in that particular household in France

 

[ferider]

Btw, i think it’s made in France.

One more thing, since you might not know the term gauge:

Roughly 1 mm^2 copper cable per 4A. So here you need -6mm^2 fat cable (for 24A), meaning ~3mm diameter copper in the cable, at least.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Will it run on 230V/50Hz - YES
Will it run on household current and wiring - NO

That is a laboratory oven. It is intended to be used where the wiring is of the proper gauge and type. Note that the supply wiring needs to be high temp wiring. Regular household wires and cords are not rated at 140°C/285°F. Household wiring is usually rated for 75°C/170°F.
TPC is high-temp cable rated at 150°C.

If hooking it up at home, I would install it on a 25-amp circuit breaker and 10-gauge TPC wiring. If that can't be sourced, use 8 gauge 90° wires from the breaker.

 

[Cushing H.]

Interesting - somehow i never was aware that several (many?) european countries ran 50 Hz systems (i thought they were all 60 Hz with 220v single phase). And here i went merrily along with my plug adaptors and DC electronic supplies (which worked fine).

I wonder what common "travel" carry items would *not* perform (or be damaged by) when plugged into 50 Hz? (I know hair dryers and clothes irons are a no-go, but that is an issue of the 220v supply)...

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Most all resistive AC devices will run on 50/60 cycles. Ther is a 20% gain or loss depending on which the device was built to run on.

When you run a motor, there are more things that change.
A 50 Hz motor runs 20% faster on 60 Hz, but not enough to burn it up. The cooling fan volume will still be equivalent to the speed. Be aware that it will also draw 20% more current when wiring the device power feed. You can use a smaller pulley to slow the speed down if needed, but on a grinder, that isn't necessary.

A 60 Hz motor runs 20% slower on 50Hz and loses 20% power. It will still be cooled properly, but DO NOT put on a bigger pulley to speed it up. The larger pulley will overload the motor by 20%. On a hair dryer or fan, that isn't a problem. However, a motor is rated to run at a certain max amperage at full load, called the FLA. It is on the plate. If you increase the load with a bigger pulley, and then increase it in grinding when hogging down, it can burn out the motor or trip the breaker.

Capacitor motors are another problem too.

 

[ferider]

Interesting - somehow i never was aware that several (many?) european countries ran 50 Hz systems (i thought they were all 60 Hz with 220v single phase). And here i went merrily along with my plug adaptors and DC electronic supplies (which worked fine).

I wonder what common "travel" carry items would *not* perform (or be damaged by) when plugged into 50 Hz? (I know hair dryers and clothes irons are a no-go, but that is an issue of the 220v supply)...

I have a European friend who - when building his house here in California - wired it entirely with 2 phases and European plugs in addition to American ones - so he has 110V and 220V (US phase 2 phase / 60 Hz) in the house. He keeps using a lot of European appliances on 220V / 60 Hz. The only things he can not run are TV and some audio equipment, most other German appliances (kitchen, washer, etc.) are OK.

 

[HSC ///]

Will it run on 230V/50Hz - YES
Will it run on household current and wiring - NO

That is a laboratory oven. It is intended to be used where the wiring is of the proper gauge and type. Note that the supply wiring needs to be high temp wiring. Regular household wires and cords are not rated at 140°C/285°F. Household wiring is usually rated for 75°C/170°F.
TPC is high-temp cable rated at 150°C.

If hooking it up at home, I would install it on a 25-amp circuit breaker and 10-gauge TPC wiring. If that can't be sourced, use 8 gauge 90° wires from the breaker.

This is a Lindberg muffle furnace, It's the type of furnace I favor over the "knifemaking" furnaces.
I've been using it for over 2 years.
I was able to get a response from the company Lindberg/MPH
They replied - "The furnaces will operate as intended at 240 volts, 50/60HZ."
and they said use 10 gauge wiring as you mentioned,

S Scaniaman ferider as I mentioned, I don't understand electricity well. so I'm not clear on what your reference to the wattage means...
Also if the furnace is intended for 240V and the house supply is only 230V, what is the practical impact of that in using the furnace?

Here’s the panel at the house


thanks

 

[Scaniaman]

I believe it's 230 V +/- 10%. So 240 v should be fine.

I am more concerned about the furnace being 1 phase, and using that W. I think you need to ask a local electrician if he/she can install a 25A switch in that panel, or in a separate paralell panel/fusebox, with the correct wireing to the furnace...I don't know if that can be done or if it exists.
Maybe your furnace can be converted/modded to 2 or 3-phase?
Sorry, wish I could be of more help.

 

[HSC ///]

I believe it's 230 V +/- 10%. So 240 v should be fine.

I am more concerned about the furnace being 1 phase, and using that W. I think you need to ask a local electrician if he/she can install a 25A switch in that panel, or a separate paralell panel/fusebox, with the correct wireing to the furnace...I don't know if that can be done or exists.
Maybe your furnace can be converted/modded to 2 or 3-phase?
Sorry, wish I could be of more help.

I don’t see why there is any need to convert to more than single phase. The manufacturer has said that it will work fine as is.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

If I understand Habeer's situation, he has 230VAC single phase (standard in Europe. It is roughly the equivalent of USA 240VAC single phase (which is really 2 phase). The oven should work fine on his voltage. There may be a slight power loss if he has exactly 230VAC. The loss would be roughly 4%, so the oven would only generate 4740 watts.

The ID/specs plate on any device is based on calculated theoretical values and not empirical values. The actual ratings will vary slightly with the use and local voltages, which vary as much as 10%. Frequency usually has very close tolerance of less than .2% because of timing devices that use line frequency as a clock input. Power companies actually count the number of cycles over a long period of time and adjust the frequency minutely to make up the loss or gain in a month.