"Hunting" with a Snub Nose .38

S

Scott Free

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Sep 15, 1999
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My new carry gun is a S&W 642 (.38). My carry load for now is Corbon 110 gr. DPX. This gun will also be my hiking gun. As such, what other ammo might you slip in a pocket for woods use? Laser grips might extend the range of the gun so that it might be useful for taking small or medium game in an emergency. Suppose you needed to take a raccoon or small deer in a survival situation. What ammo would you use? Suppose a deranged black bear thought you looked like dinner, and you could choose between a rock, a pointy stick or your little gun. Assuming you chose the gun, what would you hope it was loaded with?

These questions asked, I do not expect I will ever take game with my gun. Nor do I feel threatened by black bears. I consider myself blessed when I've occasionally catch a glimpse of one. I'm just wondering how one might maximize the effectiveness of a very minimalist weapon in a survival situation.
 
While I think not the best choice for hunting, I've seen my dad shoot to many grouse with his to not acknowledge it as a possiblity.

I use wad cutters for varmits and small game: Very low recoil and noise, outstanding accuracy.

On big game.....I would usually tell you to use a stiff hard cast load but with a snubbie a lighter round will catch more velocity.....so I'll let someone else chime in if they have experience.
 
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S&W makes lots of J-frames in .357, got to wonder why not one of them, seeing you are in bear country???? Sure, they hurt to shoot, but so do bear bites....
 
Scott Free said:
just wondering how one might maximize the effectiveness of a very minimalist weapon in a survival situation.
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Fast accurate hits my friend. Only to be gained through 100's of hours of training and 1000's of rounds down range with the weapon that you'll be stuck with.
 
I carry a few snake/shot shells for my 38 snubby. The best all around defense load for the 38 special is the 158 grain Lead HP. This has been dubbed the FBI load for decades. IMO you don't get a lot of gain from going to the 357 Mag in a 2 inch barrel. It's hard to burn that extra powder in a barrel that short. I have the S&W air weight model. I also sometimes carry it loaded with the 110 grain Corbons.I have not chronographed any loads for this gun yet. A good 38 special load from a two inch barrel will be around 750 FPS. I have read over 800 with a few loads.
 
I also carry a S&W .38 for my hiking/camping gun (albeit mine has a 3" barrel) but I normally have it loaded with Federal 110 Gr. Hydra-Shoks. Very low recoil, and I think they would handle most things I have the gun for. They would probably tear up small game pretty badly, though.
 
I would go with the afore mentioned wadcutters. They are inexpensive, low recoil and accurate. Shooting a bird or squirrel needs accuracy more than power and expansion. I also carry 110 Hydra-shoks as well as snake shot in the woods. Snake shot is pretty useless past 5 feet though.


tjg
 
Scott Free said:
My new carry gun is a S&W 642 (.38). My carry load for now is Corbon 110 gr. DPX. This gun will also be my hiking gun.

These questions asked, I do not expect I will ever take game with my gun. Nor do I feel threatened by black bears. I'm just wondering how one might maximize the effectiveness of a very minimalist weapon in a survival situation.
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Then why did you pick this gun for in the first place? I mean, what role, really, will it fill for you?

I ask because it sucks as a bear killer or even a small game getter. The latter is possible with enough practice, tho, but another gun would get you there sooner.

With all due respect, it is not a "minimalist weapon" it is a "deluded optimists" weapon for the additional roles you want to assign to it.

If your intended role is for defense from two-legged snakes, then your chosen load should work fine, presuming you become proficient with the gun. Also, presuming you're going to carry it in an accessible manner.

But if you insist on using it for small game, the previously mentioned wadcutters would be a dandy way to go. You should practice until you have at least a 15 yd range with them. IE; be able to hit a popcan at 15 yds 4 out of 5 shots. It's not extremely difficult, but it does require practice..... alot of practice.

As for bear defense, shoot your hiking buddy in the knee while you beat feet outta there!

:D

.
 
I think in the new backwoodsman issue they talk extensively about 38 special being a good camp/outdoor pistol but the barrel length was 4-6 inch variety not a snubby. I like 38 pistols...very common pistol caliber and great for all ages with gun experience
 
I think my 625 Mountain Guns in .45 Colt are great woods-hiking revolvers - but they have to be holstered or carried in a pack, a 4" 2.5# N-frame is hard to 'hide' in an acessible manner. Along comes my 296 - a 5-shot .44 Special hammerless AirLite, kind of a 642 on steroids. I carry it in a Robert Mika's pocket holster, loaded with 200gr Gold Dots - or, against S&Ws advice, 240gr LSWCs (The heavy lead loads must be heavily crimped, lest a bullet pull loose and jam the 21 oz revolver.). They chrono-ed 805 & 770 fps from the 2.5" barrel - and kick pretty good with the boot grips - a requirement for the pocket carry capability. The combo fits my cargo-style front pockets well.

I also have an easier to hide 642, but I carry the Remington R38S12 version of the 'FBI load', the 158gr LSWCHP +P .38 Special, which I have chrono-ed at 840 fps from my 642. The Georgia Arms G38E reloads, a +P 158gr LSWC(HP) with what looks like a harder lead - probably not the agressive opener the Remi's are in soft tissue - make 837 fps from my 642 - and cost a third of what the Remi's do - great practice rounds, as they, too, hit coincident POI/POA at 12-15yd. This should be sufficient, with good shot placement, for deer. I'd carry some +P LSWC - solids - for other 'protection' - although it will be definitely minimalist for even small black bears. Great for 2-legged predators. Those 110 DPX shatter pretty well in wallboard - they offer less 'over-penetration' in a home, not a big worry in the outdoors. Those 158gr +Ps, from the boot-gripped 642, are not 'fun' plinkers, either.

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Stainz

PS The 296 has been discontinued for >6 yrs - I bought it new on 'closeout' for less than half it's MSRP - and a new 642 was still cheaper!
 
My "car camping" gun in black bear country is a Ruger GP-100 loaded with .357 mag Federal 180 grain cast core bullets, backing up a combat shotgun loaded with Breneke slugs.

For hiking I have to compromise, so I pack the S&W 360SC "kit gun" with a 3+" barrel (only 12 oz!), loaded with .357 mag Winchester 145 grain Silvertips. I don't feel real confident packing this, but weight is a premium.....but a .38, never!
 
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Doesn't S&W have a 3 inch .357 steel framed j-frame with a barrel underlug and adjustable sights now?
Seems like that could be a good trail gun.

You guys are lucky, we aren't allowed to carry up here and we have minimum barrel length restrictions on handguns as well.
Barrel has to be at least 104mm long, which is just a hair OVER 4 inches. Which effectively made all 4 inch barrels and under "prohibited". And since then no more 4 inchers or shorter can be imported.
 
It can be done, but requires lots of practice. I can shoot roughly 2.5 inch groups with my 642 at 25 yards, but I have shot it (and other much like it) a LOT.

For a woods carry load, I would consider the Buffalo Bore 150grn hard cast wadcutter. It is standard pressure, averages ~900fps out of a 2 inch gun, and penetrates ~23 inches of gelatin. I have been using the Speer Lawman 158 FPTMJ +P for this for a while, but like the sound of that hard, fast wadcutter.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Buffalo...r standard pressure Hard Cast Wad Cutter.html
 
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reconranger said:
My "car camping" gun in black bear country is a Ruger GP-100 loaded with .357 mag

For hiking I have to compromise, so I pack the S&W 360SC "kit gun" with a 3+" barrel (only 12 oz!), loaded with .357 mag Winchester 145 grain Silvertips. I don't feel real confident packing this, but weight is a premium.....
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Why do you have to compromise?

Nothing personal, but I swear, everytime I hear comments about weight, etc, I have two thoughts: That person probably could lose 10-20 lbs and get stronger to handle that extra ounce or two...

And I've never, ever understood compromising on a piece of gear that could easily make the difference between coming back or not. Especially when the person admits a lack of confidence in their choice.

In the meantime, while working on getting stronger, compromise somewhere else.

Again, nothing personal.

.
 
tholiver said:
Doesn't S&W have a 3 inch .357 steel framed j-frame with a barrel underlug and adjustable sights now?
Seems like that could be a good trail gun.

You guys are lucky, we aren't allowed to carry up here and we have minimum barrel length restrictions on handguns as well.
Barrel has to be at least 104mm long, which is just a hair OVER 4 inches. Which effectively made all 4 inch barrels and under "prohibited". And since then no more 4 inchers or shorter can be imported.
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Stupid politicians! FYI S&W made a batch of Model 60 Kitguns in .357 mag with 5 inch barrels. I would buy one of those if possible and have the barrel shortened to 4.25 inches (just to be spiteful :cool: ) and have a nice gold bead patridge front site mounted on it.
 
David E said:
Why do you have to compromise?

And I've never, ever understood compromising on a piece of gear that could easily make the difference between coming back or not. Especially when the person admits a lack of confidence in their choice.

In the meantime, while working on getting stronger, compromise somewhere else..
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Come on. Everything's a compromise, and we all make them. First off, we're talking about the negligible possibility of a black bear attack. Sure. They happen. So do lightening strikes and we don't wear lightening rods. We all make compromises. A .44 magnum is a compromise. Why not carry a shotgun? Or two shotguns in case one fails? Don't denigrate someone because they make compromises based on their perceived threats.
 
If it was me I would load it with 158gr hard cast swc. If you need the penetration with the hard cast it will help. If you hand load then you can custom tailor the load to what is most accurate for you and the gun. I once read a few articles one was called Making a "silk purse from a sows ear" it was all about 38 special loads and the one they talked about the most was a cast 200gr lead round nose. The bad part you cant get that anymore. Would be interesting to try it at least. Doug
 
Well, I carry a 3" J-frame in the woods often. I find the 3" tube is a big improovement for me over a snubby. I can hit clay pigeons at 25 m. with every shot. My carry load is a 158 gr. SWC at about 900 fps out of that tube. I shoot wadcutters too, but I really prefer the SWC load. I have killed game up to coon size with wadcutters, but they seem to have trouble penetrating bone- the SWC does not.

THis little pistol has replaced a .22 auto for me as a light woods gun when I do not want to pack a K-frame .357 or a N-frame .44. I have faith in it because it has performed well for me, but I understand the limits it has as well.
 
I have one of those S&W Model 60 .357's with 5" barrel. Felt recoil is less than a Ruger SP101 and the longer barrel makes it easier to hit what you're aiming at. Very nice gun.
 
I think that the point being made is that the difference in weight between your chosen gun and a .357 or, heck, a .44 mag is at most a few ounces. If you could lose a pound of body fat, or pick up 0.5% in total strength; you could carry a gun that you could be confident in- in the off chance of an encounter with a bear.

The difference between a marginal round from a marginal platform and an effective round from an adequate platform is a BIG compromise for insignificant gain.

For example, where my dad lives in Texas, it is legal to take deer with any centerfire rifle cartridge. Every year people take deer with .223 caliber rifles. Knowing that a .223 CAN be used to take deer, I use a .270 win for my deer hunting. While the .223 may be sufficient under a limited set of circumstances, I am confident that my .270 is more than adequate for any shooting scenario that I will encounter while deer hunting. A .223 kicks less (which is why it is popular for youth hunters), but the 270 hits harder, and is less constrained by distance.
 
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