I almost got roped into a pyramid scheme(Primerica/Prime America)

Noctis3880

Noctis3880

Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
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Okay, so a couple of weeks ago, a coworker of mine suggested I try out for a different job, and gave me the address for it. Did not provide the company name, or describe in any detail whatsoever what that job entails. Should've set off alarms for me right then and there, but it didn't exactly cross my mind for a potential job to be BS.

It was in a large secured building(a key card is needed to take the elevator into the upper floors), and you'd need to pass both state and federal background checks to take the job, thus why I still thought there was a chance in hell it was legit. Turns out their little "office" was on the 1st floor, and they didn't exactly own the building itself, but rather just one small corner of it(like a shopping mall).

The details of this meeting was intentionally vague, and I found out it was more of a seminar. I found it odd that they never made it particularly distinct who worked there and who were the "fresh meat" so to speak. And as this seminar(more like a powerpoint presentation with 40 people) went on, I felt more and more convinced that this was all rehearsed, orchestrated, and artificial, with only 5-10 actual "recruits" in the room.

I was handed a clipboard and sheet, was told it was a "survey". I put down my name, address, phone number, and e-mail, thinking it was mostly harmless. I stopped at the bottom asking for referrals, as something didn't smell right there, and the lady(coworker's mom) seemed quite disappointed that I didn't have any referrals there for her. There was also what appeared to be a legal document "sign-up" sheet for their sales-rep-esque position. I didn't dare touch that one, saying that I would not commit to anything until I've researched this company further.

Did my research on the BBB, Yelp, and ConsumerAffairs. Did NOT like what I saw.

I also Googled whether or not it's possible to sign someone up for life insurance without a SSN(which wasn't asked and wasn't given), and it turns out you can:eek:. Figured it might be worth it to stop by the Police Department tomorrow to see what my options are to prevent anything like that.


The problem I have would be whether or not to bring this up to the HR department of my current employer. First off, I would think they'd like to know one of their employees are trying to sucker in other workers into this scheme. Second, I don't want other people to be victimized by this crap. On the other hand, this coworker literally knows where I live(didn't occur to me to lie on the form). Hawaii isn't a CCW state, and it's a little difficult for me to hide my CRKT Hisshou on me, especially on my scooter:cool:. From what I understand, the faithful employees of this company tend to have a cult personality.
 
Sucks to be treated like a bitch like that. Reminds me of the time the very attractive receptionist at a place I worked blue-collar really laid the friendship thing on thick for a couple weeks - before she started bringing up the Amway angle at every opportunity. Oh well, the delusion was fun while it lasted.

Eff crooks and manipulators
 
So... report her ass? I could definitely spread this out a bit on Facebook and YouTube, though I'm not sure if that would leave me open to potential lawsuits for slander.
 
Talk to your office mate directly. I personally think it would be poor form to approach HR without talking to the person first.
 
I agree with the posts above. You also have to consider what your response will be when your HR rep asks why you and a co-worker are talking about getting a job with another company while at work. ;)
 
Shotgun said:
I agree with the posts above. You also have to consider what your response will be when your HR rep asks why you and a co-worker are talking about getting a job with another company while at work. ;)
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Not really?

A) I wouldn't exactly mind if I lost that job, that's why I was looking.
B) Lots of people there have second jobs.
C) They don't exactly care so long as you don't work for a competitor(and it wasn't one).


Report her for what?:eek: She tried to sign me up for a pyramid scheme, did the whole song and dance. Told me how great it was, how much our job sucked, said I could be my own boss, run my own business. You really think someone pitches that to you without malice?

Unless the company(mine) was BSing when they tell you that honesty and integrity are part of their core values, I think trying to sign up coworkers(especially new hires) for a pyramid scheme is something that definitely crosses a line.

Seriously, check it out:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/primerica-burbank-3
http://www.yelp.com/topic/los-angeles-is-primerica-a-pyradigm-scheme
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/employment/primerica.html?page=2
http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2013/05/primerica-financial-services-the-fake-job-interview/
http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Reviews...tus=PART_TIME&filter.employmentStatus=UNKNOWN
http://www.bbb.org/atlanta/business...rvices/primerica-in-duluth-ga-6985/complaints


This is also the first in a long series of scumbag-caused events that occurred to me recently, which kinda puts me under the impression that there's a "kick me" sign on my back. I kind of feel like I ought to kick back out of pure spite and would be very well justified in doing so.
 
Yep being vague about everything is how you know pretty early on what kind of opportunity they have for you.
Primerica, lol. Had them talk to me in Walmart of all places. I figured out who they were when googling their address and they didn't provide me a company name. I didnt go. Next time I saw them in Walmart they just smiled weirdly and went away.

Same company but different vultures at a Kindergarten kids birthday party.

Just turn the table and try to extract details from them even if they don't want to. It's kind of fun and if there isn't anything better to do at a birthday party....

Oh and they are legal since they are technically selling something and are not a pure pyramid scheme.
 
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Noctis3880 said:
The problem I have would be whether or not to bring this up to the HR department of my current employer. First off, I would think they'd like to know one of their employees are trying to sucker in other workers into this scheme. Second, I don't want other people to be victimized by this crap. On the other hand, this coworker literally knows where I live(didn't occur to me to lie on the form). Hawaii isn't a CCW state, and it's a little difficult for me to hide my CRKT Hisshou on me, especially on my scooter:cool:. From what I understand, the faithful employees of this company tend to have a cult personality.
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http://www.consumeraffairs.com/employment/primerica.html

Primerica is a not necessarily a pyramid scheme...

http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2013/05/primerica-financial-services-the-fake-job-interview/

http://www.businessinsider.com/citigroup-primerica-ipo-2010-4

But Business Insider claims it IS a pyramid scheme.

https://www.ftc.gov/

Read what might apply here:

http://www.fbi.gov/scams-safety/fraud

...and they are "faithful" because anyone being an obstacle to get potential winnings from a scheme is a 'threat.' People have committed great tragedies for less. I would seek the advice of your local law enforcement. Speak to a detective involved in fraud investigations. If they can't help you, try your State Police. Move up from there.

I would report he employee to HR and move on.

steppinthefunk said:
Talk to your office mate directly. I personally think it would be poor form to approach HR without talking to the person first.
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I disagree. Confronting the individual often leads to inter-office situations. I suggest avoiding the employee all together and going right to HR. IF there is something to investigate, let THEM do it. That is what they are for...protecting the employee and the business.

Document everything - from your initial contact of the employee to every LE agency [and officer's names] you reported it to.
 
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When I was in my late 20's I would be approached all the time by these pyramiders. Eventually, I came up with a speal that had them turning away rather quickly. Basically I told them that I love my job, recently got a promotion with an awesome raise and was tracking to become a partner of the firm - worked like a charm.
 
Well, HPD wasn't able to do much other than offer the advice that if she harasses me near or in my apartment complex, I could charge her for harassment, trespass her from the property, and file a TRO against her.

I've purchased pepper spray since it seems like I'm a popular guy among scumbags and shady people, and I'm wondering if Lifelock would help with this at all. It would prevent unauthorized use of my credit or identity, but it was questionable whether it offers any protection against (on paper at least) a legitimate business.

I did report this to HR, but all I could get was that she would be "disciplined" if anything. My brother once advised me that it would be time to leave a job if your coworkers hate you. Granted, it was just one, but that doesn't make my stay there any more pleasant.
 
steppinthefunk said:
With all due respect, I think you might be overthinking and over reacting to the situation.
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I don't know about that.

I've been looking for a job recently while waiting for my Ohio licensure to come through to work independently as an MD, and I got cold-called by an obvious scam company. No physical location, claimed to be selling medical devices to "all the offices around, probably even yours!". Problem is, I'd never heard of them. No one I've asked has.

That's strike one. Strike two, I'd have to generate my own leads, buy my own samples to give out while working up a client base. Strike three, no base pay. Not even one cent.

I declined about as fast as can be expected, and these dicks have been harassing me ever since.

They don't know where I live, as I don't have a listed phone number or have it on my resume, but they do have my cell. After a month of daily, and sometimes multiple daily, calls I blocked their number.

So, he just might be taking the right amount of precaution. I would.
 
Sword and Shield said:
I don't know about that.

I've been looking for a job recently while waiting for my Ohio licensure to come through to work independently as an MD, and I got cold-called by an obvious scam company. No physical location, claimed to be selling medical devices to "all the offices around, probably even yours!". Problem is, I'd never heard of them. No one I've asked has.

That's strike one. Strike two, I'd have to generate my own leads, buy my own samples to give out while working up a client base. Strike three, no base pay. Not even one cent.

I declined about as fast as can be expected, and these dicks have been harassing me ever since.

They don't know where I live, as I don't have a listed phone number or have it on my resume, but they do have my cell. After a month of daily, and sometimes multiple daily, calls I blocked their number.

So, he just might be taking the right amount of precaution. I would.
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Had you not blocked the number, I would have suggested that if they continued, read to them the section in your jurisdiction's Crimes Codes and Statutes referring to "Harassment"

Here in PA, it's: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.027.009.000..HTM

Here it ranges from a Summary offense to Misdemeanor 2 depending on the circumstances..........but i'm fairly positive every jurisdiction in the Nation has something at least similar to this.
 
I talked to those people at one time and sat through their orientation. I decided I couldn't imagine doing what they do.
 
I've nearly been 'roped into' one of those Amway programs as well. They had another name for it, but it was under the same company and worked the same way.

One of my friends who I've made a few knives for happened to be working for them-- poor guy actually believed in the program. As a university student, he wanted to make money in his spare time, and he started a website, started trying to recruit people under him, myself included. Not that I'm bitter about the attempt, as I said he really believed in it. Thankfully he realized how much money he'd need to sink into the program in order to see ANY kind of meaningful return, so he quit not too long ago.
 
druid189 said:
Had you not blocked the number, I would have suggested that if they continued, read to them the section in your jurisdiction's Crimes Codes and Statutes referring to "Harassment"

Here in PA, it's: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.027.009.000..HTM

Here it ranges from a Summary offense to Misdemeanor 2 depending on the circumstances..........but i'm fairly positive every jurisdiction in the Nation has something at least similar to this.
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I would have suggested recording the phone convo(there are apps that do this) and notify them that they are being recorded and that anything they say can and will be used against them in the court of law:thumbup:.

22-rimfire said:
I talked to those people at one time and sat through their orientation. I decided I couldn't imagine doing what they do.
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Me neither. Putting aside trying to sell something, setting up false "orientations" and BSing about every single aspect of it isn't in my personality. I'm the kind of a guy who stops at stop signs at 11:00pm at night on an empty backroad.


While I was told that my coworker would be disciplined, I've thus far seen no evidence to suggest that anyone from HR even talked with her. If nothing else, my supervisor mentioned that HR told her that I "need some coaching". I don't plan on pursuing the matter further as I haven't received further communications from Primerica. But yeah, this is what the world looks like folks.

I would have thought that trying to solicit coworkers into a pyramid scheme on company time was worthy of some kind of disciplinary action, but I suppose there's still honor among thieves.
 
Sat through Amway's orientation also-twice. Once was a friend. Again, I can't imagine changing my whole purchase approach for ordinary things and trying to convince other people that their stuff is the "best". I would not make a very good door to door vacuum cleaner salesman. I would have to totally believe in the product I am selling. I am not like car salesman who move from dealership to dealership selling cars and telling the prospective buyer that they are the best. Oh, "I switched from General Motors or Dodge to Toyota or Nissan because they have better products..." I don't believe a word. They switched because they weren't making enough money where they were and no other reason. I don't blame them in the least, but I don't believe them.

Unfortunately, the need for some coaching was probably the most significant aspect of that whole experience you had. That is negative towards YOU and not them.
 
I'm not connected with Primeamerica and maybe your coworker's approach was not the best but it's not a pyramid scheme.

People throw that word around as if they know what it is. A pyramid scheme is where the only money (or even majority) that is generated is from people joining and getting passed up the chain. You were almost roped into selling life insurance on the side is my guess. That's not a pyramid scheme.

If you were to sign up, you would be motivated by the commissions (usually 50% of first year premiums) but the big honey pot is when you've built up residuals as people renew. Unfortunately, once you've sold insurance policies to all your friends and family, you're going to have a hard time (if your personality isn't geared to face-to-face people sales) of generating new sales. Generating new sales is a qualifier to continue getting those residuals from existing policies. Not wanting to put in more effort to sell to strangers, you drop out. The residuals for the policies you've generated then rolls up to the person above you.

I know this because I tried it for a spell many years ago with a different company.

To your question, I wouldn't report your coworker to HR. Your coworker is just trying to find another income stream just like you. He/She was hoping you'd take to it in hopes of helping you and helping herself at the same time. If she successfully got you recruited, you'd be reporting to her organization and getting a sliver from the policies you would have sold. You, in turn, would also be trying to build up your organization. Nothing nefarious here, just everyone trying to better their station in life.
 
It is a pyramid scheme only in the sense that you get residuals from what the folks you recruit sell down the road. You're pretty much on your own and for the most part, you're selling life insurance. Some set up their own offices.
 
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