I bought a surface grinder.....Now what?

JoshRG

JoshRG

Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
571
Two days ago I bought a surface grinder and after a day of lifting and shifting I finally got it into my garage. As excited as I am to get it up and running there are several things I am unsure about and would greatly appreciate advice on before I injure myself or damage the machine. First and foremost is the issue with powering the machine. The previous owner installed a phase converter to run it on single rather than three phase power but I still need 220 to get it up and running. I was recommended using a transformer and simply running it from 110v outlet but want to make sure this will work and not cause any issues down the road.

From what I can tell the components seem to be in relatively good shape. The ways look to be in very good condition and the original scrapings are still easily seen. Everything slides very smoothly with no binding in any area. However, when dropping the spindle right before the wheel touches the chuck there is a bit of a "clunk" and it seems to drop about a 1/16 of an inch or so. Also the previous owner gave me what was left of what he said were way covers, they were in horrible shape and unusable and in all honesty I am not even sure where they went. I figure it is good practice to keep the ways as pristine as possible but seeing as how I dont know how the covers attached it is difficult for me to replicate something similar.

I was able to locate a manual for the boyer schultz 612 but the oiling directions seem to be different. The manual shows different "cups" for holding oil at numerous locations whereas mine has a single reservoir with pump on right hand side of the vertical column.

And finally I am planning on resurfacing the chuck once I get the machine running. Is it pretty straightforward or are there preventative measures I should take?

I apologize for the long winded request but I am completely out of my element with this and my machinery knowledge is rather limited. I am more than willing to do the research necessary but what might take me hours of searching is often times quickly solved by the knowledge of those much more experienced than myself. Thank you in advance for any help, it is very much appreciated.

Pics for reference:


Blessings,
Joshua
 
I still need 220 to get it up and running. I was recommended using a transformer and simply running it from 110v outlet
Click to expand...

If you're in the USA that's bad advice, get an electrician.

Do you have the phase convertor ?


The clunk is a concern.
get inside it and see if the Z up and down screw or nut is damaged.
 
Josh, we have a shop in Costa Mesa with a Boyar Schultz (Challenger deluxe)
not sure where you are in SoCal but you are welcome to come by and look at ours in operation if that helps
 
Ah..Figured that.
I do indeed. Here is is:


I will check on both of those ASAP

That sounds great bro! I'm in Riverside so thats not TOO far of a drive lol. Thanks so much for the invitation. :)
 
DO not use a transformer to try and make 220 from 110!

You don't want to try and run that machine on any 110V circuit, even with a 110V 1PH in to 220V 3PH out converter. The draw is too high. Get a socket wired for 220V. If you have tools like a surface grinder, you need it anyway. Grinders, big saws, etc. all run better on 220. If your shop isn't powered by at least a 60 amp sub-feed, you need an upgrade anyway. I would recommend 100 amps.

Not nearly as important, but wearing flip flops in a metal shop is asking for a trip to the ER.
 
Well...looks like its time to call an electrician. I kinda figured that would be the case. Thanks Stacy!

The flip flops were just so I could go snap a pic, this isn't where I usually work just my garage. ;)

Blessings,
Joshua
 
OK, but think about this scenario

Heavy metal box in left hand
Cell phone camera in right hand
feet in flip flops directly under heavy box.
Cell phone slips, or someone startles you
Heavy metal box slips out of left hand
Foot/feet go to ER
You can't make knives or use your new surface grinder for several weeks or longer.
 
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
OK, but think about this scenario

Heavy metal box in left hand
Cell phone camera ibn right hand
feet in flip flops directly under heavy box.
Cell phone slips, or someone startles you
Heavy metal box slips out of left hand
Foot/feet go to ER
You can't make knives or use your new surface grinder for several weeks or longer.
Click to expand...

x2 , i always wear steel toes and my prescription safety glasses.
on a side note , i'm an industrial electrician and automation technologist. Don't get a stepdown tramsformer ...
 
get the american version of the canadian electrical code , get the proper outlet with adequate allowable ampacity rating for 240 volts. Rotating transformers are great ... looks like a nice find you got there.
 
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Sounds like you may have some wear in the ball screw/nut near the table. The distance from the table where it "clunks" or drops is probably where most of the work was done on the machine.

As for the 110/220 and phase converter issue, I agree with Stacy, wire up a 220VAC outlet. Even better would be to hardwire in a either a VFD or a rotary phase converter. Those static converters are really just motor starters, and run your 3 phase motor on single phase, which not only reduces power, but will ultimately wear your motor out earlier than later. If its all you have, I suppose it's better than nothing, but rotary is best, and a VFD is next best.

Now, what should you do after you wire everything up, but before you turn it on?

Make sure the machine is dead nuts level. If your machine has anti-vibration feet, great. If not, get some.
Take your wheel off and ring test it. make sure it won't explode/vaporize all over the shop as soon as the motor kicks on (ask me how I know this).
Invest in a good wheel dresser and make sure you have wheels suitable for the steel you'll be surfacing. Not all wheels are created equal.

Actually, it looks like you may be missing your paper blotters from your stone wheel. You really should have them as they add a layer of protection when mounting wheels. Otherwise your flange is liable to put pressure directly on the stone and possibly wear both your flange and wheel prematurely and risk breakage. If you don't have the blotters, I'd probably just throw that wheel out and get some new wheels.

Make sure your ways are clean and have a good coat of oil on them. Make sure fresh oil is getting to them as well. If the machine sat for any length of time, any lube lines coming from the reservoir may be clogged. Make sure you have some good ways oil on order, as you will need more eventually.

If you haven't already, and you can do this before you wire it up, take a dial indicator and check the spindle for any run out. Put some lateral pressure on it too and make sure it's not deflecting more than .0005 or so. If there's much more play than that, you're gonna have a heck of a time getting a good surface.

Now, when you do fire it up, make sure the wheel is running the right way, and let things warm up for a few minutes. Put your hand on the spindle motor and make sure there isn't any vibration. Again, this is critical for a good surface. Any run out in the spindle or vibration in the motor will translate directly to your surface.

Other than that, dress your wheel, chuck up a piece of steel and take a couple of light passes. You may want to start out with something say 1/2" thick or more where the lead screw has less wear. See what you get.
 
I think what you have there is a hydraulic machine minus the hydraulics. It is certainly different than mine in some respects though the same basic machine. I doubt your spindle motor is any bigger than 3/4hp. I run my SG from my KBAC27 on my 2x72 which allows me to slow it down for things like titanium or ironwood. I have one way cover. It is a rubber sheet that is attached to the back of the carriage on the y-axis and hangs across to the z-axis tower. I believe the ways are covered with turcite tape. Here's a link to my belt conversion thread if you're interested in that.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1189720-Boyar-Schultz-612-surface-grinder-belt-conversion-WIP

If you have any questions I will do my best to answer. The machine is pretty straight forward though.

Bob
 
Hey Josh,

I have the same static converter you do and run my Covel 6X12 with it. I ran a 220 circuit to a 2 pole switch so I could shut power off to the converter when not in use. I believe the manual says it is ok to leave it powered but I felt better knowing I could shut it off.

For wheels I went with a general purpose Norton that Don Hanson uses. It is a 32A46GVBE and comes with paper spacers (I think most Norton wheels do) and they run about $45 from MSC with shipping.

For a wheel dresser I took the route mentioned by the Count in an older thread and bought a replacement diamond dresser from Enco for about $20. I took some 4140 1.5"x1.5" square stock I had and cut a 3" piece of it. I drilled a hole bit enough for the diamond dresser at about a 45* angle on the top of the stock. I came in on the side and drilled and tapped a hole for a set screw to hold the dresser in place. For my uses it dresses the wheel great and cost me about $25. If you have one great, if not I could buy two surface grinders for the prices I saw for a new one.

When getting setup Javan was kind enough to talk me through it over the phone. I believe he has 3 SG's, both belt and stone and he knows his stuff. Something he advised me on that I now agree with was to not worry about grinding in the chuck unless it was clearly way off. Practice on some scrap first. Magnetic chucks are expensive!

Starting out it is hard to get a nice finish but for my uses I'm not worried about the finish, I'll use sand paper for that. I use the SG to get stuff flat and it does that well. I will say they are scary and stones can and do explode so I recommend you look into safety if you don't have any experience with one. You will send metal across your shop if you have never used one before. Ask me how I know :D

-Clint
 
You'll put your eye out and have to wear a cast the entire school year. :D
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
OK, but think about this scenario

Heavy metal box in left hand
Cell phone camera in right hand
feet in flip flops directly under heavy box.
Cell phone slips, or someone startles you
Heavy metal box slips out of left hand
Foot/feet go to ER
You can't make knives or use your new surface grinder for several weeks or longer.
Click to expand...
 
Wow everyone thanks for all the very informative responses. Definitely feel more prepared now.

One last question,
Bob you mentioned you run yours off of your KBAC27 for your 2x72. This may be a stupid question but I have a KBAC27d for my main grinder, however it runs off of 110v, if I were to power both machines from the same VFD would I have to rewire the whole assembly for 220v?

I'm sure I will have more questions at a later time, but for now this gives me a ton to get started on. Thanks again everyone I appreciate it greatly!

Blessings,
Joshua
 
If you already have a VFD driving your grinder, that's making 3 phase 220V for you. All you'd have to do is make it so you can plug or switch your SG alternately into the outgoing power leads from the VFD. Much better than that Phase a matic.
 
Salem is correct.
Before installing the vfd, my grinder's motor on condenser (the same phase o matic trick) ran bloody hot. I was lucky i didn't burn it!
 
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