I hate the final sharpening - Is it just me?

HSC /// said:
another way to look at it is, how thin is your edge?
I don't know what kind of knives you make or the grind....
but in the words of the famous philosopher Don Hanson III Don Hanson III , - I like them sharp before I sharpen them.
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Well ,before this words of wisdom I use angle grinder to sharpen my knife , that thick was my blade :D Now seriously , since I got six DMT diamond stones ALL 600 grit :mad: thanks to my American friend :) sharpening any steel is fast and easy .Just let the diamond to do job:thumbsup:
 
That is a good way to get yourself killed. Having the edge at chest level with the belt moving toward you is just asking for a belt break and knife propelled into your chest.

He should move to the space between the wheel and platen, or run his belt in reverse.

Check out Lon Humphreys video

 
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Can someone explain the theory behind a "worn XXX grit belt" for sharpening?

I don't understand the purpose of using a dull belt on the most heat critical (and heat vulnerable) part of the knife.
 
I think that comes from the old wives tale that a worn belt has smaller grit than a new belt.

What Really happens with a worn belt is higher friction .... exactly what you DON'T want.

I use a new or good condition belt for sharpening. 400 grit most of the time, but 220 for some field use blades.

I grind the bevel to a zero edge or near it. It would cut you if you accidentally grabbed it wrong. However, the edge is not even and has no secondary edge bevel.
I put on a new 400 grit belt and on a tight slack belt right behind the upper 2" wheel I sharpen it until it has raised a fine wire. I hit it on the charged buffer (charged with fine rouge) one fast pass per side. This removes or loosens the major part of the wire. I then draw it through a piece of heavy cardstock five or six times (postcard thickness) to remove any trace of the wire. After that, I hit the buffer again ( charged with matchless white) one pass per side to put a polished micro-convex edge on. This is very sharp and pretty darn tough.

Over buffing will roll your edge and spoil all the work you did sharpening.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I think that comes from the old wives tale that a worn belt has smaller grit than a new belt.

What Really happens with a worn belt is higher friction .... exactly what you DON'T want.

I use a new or good condition belt for sharpening. 400 grit most of the time, but 220 for some field use blades.

I grind the bevel to a zero edge or near it. It would cut you if you accidentally grabbed it wrong. However, the edge is not even and has no secondary edge bevel.
I put on a new 400 grit belt and on a tight slack belt right behind the upper 2" wheel I sharpen it until it has raised a fine wire. I hit it on the charged buffer (charged with fine rouge) one fast pass per side. This removes or loosens the major part of the wire. I then draw it through a piece of heavy cardstock five or six times (postcard thickness) to remove any trace of the wire. After that, I hit the buffer again ( charged with matchless white) one pass per side to put a polished micro-convex edge on. This is very sharp and pretty darn tough.

Over buffing will roll your edge and spoil all the work you did sharpening.
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It seems a lot of people have bought it, it's been posted here over and over through the years. When I was researching sharpening it seemed a good way to make a sharp edge very quick, even recommended by reputable makers. One of the main reasons I went with the process is because of some of the names of makers who said that's what they do.
 
kuraki said:
Can someone explain the theory behind a "worn XXX grit belt" for sharpening?

I don't understand the purpose of using a dull belt on the most heat critical (and heat vulnerable) part of the knife.
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I was wondering that as well. I wasn’t sure if the thought process was that they’re afraid of stripping grit faster with a sharp edge if they’re going into the belt, but I sharpen all my knives bevel down on a brand new 220 grit belt.
Slow and sometimes with water cupped from my hand onto the belt. Then followed up with stones and a leather strop with compound. My edges are usually almost zero so sharpening happens fast nowadays. I even gave away the diamond lansky because I’m getting better results this way.

Depending on the size of the knife I usually go between the top idler wheel and the platen, but I’ve done it like mike of ekim knives too. It’s really not dangerous like it looks going slow especially with a shop apron on.
 
I have to admit that I gave the same advice in day past. I heard it from Bill Moran and other well known guys. Later on I learned enough metallurgy and material mechanics/physics stuff to realize it wasn't true.

What I have learned from guys like Roman Landes and others is that the quality of the edge is all about thinness and flatness.
Also, a micro-serrated edge is not only more aggressive, it is what you get no matter how you sharpen. Even a 1000 grit stone leaves serrations.If you take the blade to 8000 grit and then polish it on a charged leather strop, it will appear smooth, but when examined with proper magnification it will still have some serrations. If you take a blade to an absolute zero edge and sharpen to the degree where the carbides determine the edge thickness ... it is serrated.
 
I have learned to appreciate the aspects of sharpening the knives I make. I take pride in it. I use the sharpener I built, which is much like the Edge Pro or Hapstone, but better than those. I prepare the edge with diamond stones, then finish with Shapton Glass stones. When a person uses one of my knives, I want them to say, “This is the SHARPEST knife I have ever used!”

I’ve heard that phrase many, many times to date.
 
I was very pleasantly surprised about how quick it is to put a edge on a knife with the grinder. It really doesn't matter what grit you set the edge with so long as you don't go crazy. Then just smooth out the edge with higher grit. I use 400-800 depending on what I have right in front in good condition. Cardboard like stacy uses or a cork or soft wood can strip off the wire edge. I use a Spyderco grey bench stone and give it a few light swipes and then strop. For myself a wooden paint stir stick strop has worked better than leather. I know that you can probably get a knife sharper but very few take the time to do it and after the first cut they will be the same.

Also if I am going to do a few it's worth it to just soak the belt. Its will stay damp for 3 to 5 minutes and it will help to not burn the edges. I can't wait for a water cooler setup.
 
Josh Rider said:
It’s really not dangerous like it looks going slow especially with a shop apron on.
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Sharp knife, chest level with edge facing you on moving belt. It does not get more dangerous on belt grinder then that.

There is a reason they no longer allow knife makers to sharpen and grind on the top of a belt like that on Forged in Fire :)
 
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I think Stacy has said it very well on the worn belt. Like most of ya'll I've read/heard well known and respected knife makers say "worn belt" - RUN IN REVERSE - for sharpening. I think the idea behind the worn belt was it's dull, so removes metal slower, which is good for grinding at the fine edge of sharpening. Myself, I'd rather use a sharp belt and run the grinder slower (in reverse) for slow removal of metal during sharpening. A sharp 400 grit J-flex belt will put an edge on a blade that's amazingly sharp, but then follow up with finer belts, with final touch up with a worned out J-flex belt turned over and the back loaded with green compound sure does a nice job.

I don't have any phone books for testing, but thin pages from magazines slice easy, shaves arm hair smoothly.
 
I wouldn’t try to talk someone into doing it this way if they’re uncomfortable, it’s just such an unlikely scenario. I mean you could say that about anytime we approach a belt grinder with fear of a knife deflecting into our femoral arteries or our feet, or glancing off of a work rest in the same manner. It’s not the same physics as going tip up into a belt where I could see the possible dangerous outcome.
 
Fred.Rowe Fred.Rowe

I forgot to finish the sentence with "Forged in Fire"

A knifemaker was using the top of the belt like that and had an accident, so they no longer let makers grind and sharpen on the top of the belt grinder like that.
 
Josh Rider said:
I mean you could say that about anytime we approach a belt grinder with fear of a knife deflecting into our femoral arteries or our feet, or glancing off of a work rest in the same manner.
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That is also real, that too has happened to makers.
 
Without enough experience most anything in a knife shop can be deadly. For me, it's lack of sleep; not being as alert as I should be when drilling, grinding, hammering, you name it. Thanks for clarifying the forged in fire.
I watch the show regularly and I and I am sure most of us, cringe at what smiths do on that show. It must be the pressure of being on TV :)
Regards, Fred
 
Why would someone use worn AO belt to sharpen knife is beyond me .Most likely AO granule looks like small ball bearing ball :) Why you don t use ceramic belts ??
 
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