This is the second time around and when I get to final sanding , I see small cracks in my turquoise handles, this time I was very careful not to generate any heat when grinding, was very careful with my pins, I do recall dropping the handle material once before it was installed , could that have done it, any way to repair these cracks, I feel the handle is epoxied on very will,(loctite 120) thanks
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I keep cracking my gemstone turquoise
- Thread starter Niknare
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Pics of the problem might be a big help in getting some HELP! 
I may be wrong about this but I think some turquoise is prone to fracture cracks.
Here is a site that might shed some insight into your problems.
http://forum.purseblog.com/balenciaga-care-and-maintenance/cracks-in-handles-turquoise-440744.html
After looking further at that site it may not be all that helpful! However I did find out this information on another site, that it is not uncommon for surface crack in Turquoise and that some can be polished out!
Google is a wonderful tool, but sometimes it is all in how you ask the question! I have a feeling the info you are looking for might be more on a jewelry site!
I may be wrong about this but I think some turquoise is prone to fracture cracks.
Here is a site that might shed some insight into your problems.
http://forum.purseblog.com/balenciaga-care-and-maintenance/cracks-in-handles-turquoise-440744.html
After looking further at that site it may not be all that helpful! However I did find out this information on another site, that it is not uncommon for surface crack in Turquoise and that some can be polished out!
Google is a wonderful tool, but sometimes it is all in how you ask the question! I have a feeling the info you are looking for might be more on a jewelry site!
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Have you tried to fill tghe cracks with crazy glue and then polishing ? If you have never used this glue for a job like that you may be very pleased with the results in that it may hide the crack line as well as giving strength. Frank
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I've cut loads of turquoise and it is prone to fracture.
What grit are you starting on? Rougher grits (under 180 or so) can bring on fractures in turquoise and other stones that are fragile.
What kind of grit? Carbide, diamond? Wet or dry grinding?
I'd stabilize with superglue or epoxy 330 at around 600 grit if you are OK with that.
If you have any other questions I used to cut turquoise and other stones for a living.
Zam is a great final buffing compound for turquoise.
What grit are you starting on? Rougher grits (under 180 or so) can bring on fractures in turquoise and other stones that are fragile.
What kind of grit? Carbide, diamond? Wet or dry grinding?
I'd stabilize with superglue or epoxy 330 at around 600 grit if you are OK with that.
If you have any other questions I used to cut turquoise and other stones for a living.
Zam is a great final buffing compound for turquoise.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
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Is the turquoise a solid slab or reconstituted scales from a knife supplier. The "composite" stuff is just turquoise dust and resin. It cracks easily. The real TQ slabs from a lapidary source are full of natural cracks, many of which you can't see until they open up. Seal the cracks with thin CA as you see them, and continue sanding. Larger cracks can be filled by applying the CA and then sanding before the resin hardens. The dust from the sanding will bond in the uncured resin and fill the crack. It may take tow or three applications to completely fill and seal a crack, but when done, the surface will be smooth. The same technique works well with ivory and on wood,too.
I have been using 150 dry on my sander, really been trying to keep them from getting hot no more than just warm to touch, I will give that a try
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It sounds like you are doing everything right, you probably have some rough that likes to fracture. Dropping it could have done it too. I have had loads of cracks pop up at the polish stage, very frustrating.
What mine is the turquoise from?
How big are the slabs? Are they stabilized? Turquoise in larger sizes is hard to come by.
Thea are composit scales
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Turquoise is extremely soft. I've been around turquoise jewelry in New Mexico since 1959, cannot imagine it would hold up well as a knife handle. Old timers used to set it on glued-on bits of vinyl phonograph records, or atop a bed of sawdust trapped in the bezel for extra cushioning and rigidity (and maybe also to bulk up the appearance of the stones, which are usually rather thin).
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
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Composite turquoise is mostly named for the color, as there is more resin and filler than real turquoise in it.
Any lapidary project needs to be done slow, cool, and preferably wet. The sharpness of the abrasive is very important, and thus diamond is the preferred cutting media.
I have never seen the composite stuff take much of a shine, either.
Any lapidary project needs to be done slow, cool, and preferably wet. The sharpness of the abrasive is very important, and thus diamond is the preferred cutting media.
I have never seen the composite stuff take much of a shine, either.
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Composite turquoise would be like if you called JB weld composite steel!
I have never cut the composite stuff so I'm probably no use here. Good luck!
I have never cut the composite stuff so I'm probably no use here. Good luck!
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Depending on the source for getting stabilized turquise, there are two types. One, like that sold by Elliott Glasser, is mostly epoxy or some plastic. Paul Marua was making some that was 86% stone and worked really nicely. I don't know whether he still is or not.
The stuff that Marua did is heavy. That's the biggest way to tell the difference. It doesn't take heat or flexing at all. Absent lapidary equipment it can be cut with a metal cutting bandsaw. Use an old blade because it won't cut metal anymore when you are done.
Use sharp belts when grinding and dip it in water often. Sand to 600, then polish with a cotton buff and use Zam polishing compound. It does polish nicely. If you have the mostly plastic version, buff very lightly or the compound will groove the plastic.
Protect the handle material either by rounding the rear are or putting on rear bolsters. I did a whole bunch of drop tests and if it is rounded there is less inclination to chip. Rear bolsters solve that.
It's less fragile than mammth tooth, and superglue does adhere well. I never had any cracks with Paul Marua's product.
Gene
The stuff that Marua did is heavy. That's the biggest way to tell the difference. It doesn't take heat or flexing at all. Absent lapidary equipment it can be cut with a metal cutting bandsaw. Use an old blade because it won't cut metal anymore when you are done.
Use sharp belts when grinding and dip it in water often. Sand to 600, then polish with a cotton buff and use Zam polishing compound. It does polish nicely. If you have the mostly plastic version, buff very lightly or the compound will groove the plastic.
Protect the handle material either by rounding the rear are or putting on rear bolsters. I did a whole bunch of drop tests and if it is rounded there is less inclination to chip. Rear bolsters solve that.
It's less fragile than mammth tooth, and superglue does adhere well. I never had any cracks with Paul Marua's product.
Gene
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
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I guess the problem is in the semantics.
To me "stabilized" turquoise is a natural slab or nugget of turquoise that has been impregnated with Opticon 224, or a similar product ( even CA) to fill the cracks and prevent it from falling apart or cracking when cut. It also increases the shine when polished. "Stabilized" wood and ivory are the same .
Other stuff is called "Stabilized", that is actually "Composite" ( short for Composition Matrix), and is a mix of powdered material and resins that are poured or pressed into a mold to make a slab. The mold is often the shape of the desired object, thus "Stone" cameo's and pendants are pressed into shaped molds.This can produce a lot of slabs or pendants from nearly worthless raw material that was low quality or too badly cracked. They just grind the stone into a fine powder. The powder is mixed with the resin (usually an epoxy) and often fillers are added to make the powder go farther. The fillers can be anything from crushed limestone to corn starch. Dyes and streaks of color to simulate the higher quality natural material are added. The more natural material they use, the more the composite looks like real stone, but it rarely looks natural.
I like the example of JB weld being "Stabilized" steel.
To me "stabilized" turquoise is a natural slab or nugget of turquoise that has been impregnated with Opticon 224, or a similar product ( even CA) to fill the cracks and prevent it from falling apart or cracking when cut. It also increases the shine when polished. "Stabilized" wood and ivory are the same .
Other stuff is called "Stabilized", that is actually "Composite" ( short for Composition Matrix), and is a mix of powdered material and resins that are poured or pressed into a mold to make a slab. The mold is often the shape of the desired object, thus "Stone" cameo's and pendants are pressed into shaped molds.This can produce a lot of slabs or pendants from nearly worthless raw material that was low quality or too badly cracked. They just grind the stone into a fine powder. The powder is mixed with the resin (usually an epoxy) and often fillers are added to make the powder go farther. The fillers can be anything from crushed limestone to corn starch. Dyes and streaks of color to simulate the higher quality natural material are added. The more natural material they use, the more the composite looks like real stone, but it rarely looks natural.
I like the example of JB weld being "Stabilized" steel.
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Stacy,
I agree on the semantics of the problem. I called it stabilized because that's what I first heard it called. I like your terms better.
The only real drawing point for the stuff is easier for us "lapidarily challenged" folk, and some people like it. I'd love to have a full lapidary set up, but that's a ways off yet.
I started using the composite 15 years or so ago. It made some nice knives. I have some of the composite still and will use it over time. The highly veined turquoise makes nice spacers, the poorly veined stuff looks like a block of blue plastic.
Thanks for explaining where all these nice cameos I see are coming from.
Gene
I agree on the semantics of the problem. I called it stabilized because that's what I first heard it called. I like your terms better.
The only real drawing point for the stuff is easier for us "lapidarily challenged" folk, and some people like it. I'd love to have a full lapidary set up, but that's a ways off yet.
I started using the composite 15 years or so ago. It made some nice knives. I have some of the composite still and will use it over time. The highly veined turquoise makes nice spacers, the poorly veined stuff looks like a block of blue plastic.
Thanks for explaining where all these nice cameos I see are coming from.
Gene
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Yes, Turquoise is some funny stuff, I used to sell stones I cut and finished jewelry. Here in the four corners Turquoise is still #1, probably half the jewelry here has (what looks like) turquoise in it. Hopefully this helps someone.
About half of the stores here carry jewelry made of what locally is known as "block" or composite stone. It comes in just about any color and pattern and in rough form has seams on it from the mold. When you cut it it smells just like you are cutting plastic. I guess it could have some turquoise in it but in my mind it is fake. Sure the composite turquoise looks good but look at the "rhodonite" or "azurite/malachite" and you will see it is just plastic. The dead giveaway is the "Tortoise Shell"... come on, does it really have tortoise shell in it and come out looking like that?
The other 40% of the stones are stabilized. This is complicated to explain but either vaporized plastics, epoxy, or a number of other stabilizers are vacuumed into a stone to make it more usable. It could be cracked, chalky, or too porous among other variables. Some processes like the Zachary process saturate the rock with the fluids it was originally composed of essentially making more stone in the pores and gaps.
Dyed and stabilized is a twist on the stabilization, a dyed stone is still "real" but not really considered as valuable. I like to stay away from dyed stones as a personal preference but I'm fine with stabilized ones. This process can be compared to what they use for handle woods.
The other 10% is natural turquoise. It is expensive material and usually on the smaller side. It generally comes in little bumpy nuggets or in seams or cracks in rocks that can be slabbed. Some of it is called "saw rock" because you have lots of matrix to trim away from the turquoise. Good natural turquoise can run between $100-500 per pound on average.
About half of the stores here carry jewelry made of what locally is known as "block" or composite stone. It comes in just about any color and pattern and in rough form has seams on it from the mold. When you cut it it smells just like you are cutting plastic. I guess it could have some turquoise in it but in my mind it is fake. Sure the composite turquoise looks good but look at the "rhodonite" or "azurite/malachite" and you will see it is just plastic. The dead giveaway is the "Tortoise Shell"... come on, does it really have tortoise shell in it and come out looking like that?
The other 40% of the stones are stabilized. This is complicated to explain but either vaporized plastics, epoxy, or a number of other stabilizers are vacuumed into a stone to make it more usable. It could be cracked, chalky, or too porous among other variables. Some processes like the Zachary process saturate the rock with the fluids it was originally composed of essentially making more stone in the pores and gaps.
Dyed and stabilized is a twist on the stabilization, a dyed stone is still "real" but not really considered as valuable. I like to stay away from dyed stones as a personal preference but I'm fine with stabilized ones. This process can be compared to what they use for handle woods.
The other 10% is natural turquoise. It is expensive material and usually on the smaller side. It generally comes in little bumpy nuggets or in seams or cracks in rocks that can be slabbed. Some of it is called "saw rock" because you have lots of matrix to trim away from the turquoise. Good natural turquoise can run between $100-500 per pound on average.
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By the way, I'm not trying to bash anyones process here, just trying to clarify some things. I just think the way the stone scale materials are marketed is a bit misleading.
This stuff is in a way like some of the import patterned steel... to the average person it might look the same as what you guys make but it isn't and shouldn't be sold as such.
This stuff is in a way like some of the import patterned steel... to the average person it might look the same as what you guys make but it isn't and shouldn't be sold as such.