i need help making Damascus please share your knowledge

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punkmonkey187

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May 17, 2016
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hello im new to this. my name is jovito im a chef and have been one for about 20 years. i have a deep passion for cutlery both kitchen and out doors. now im trying to get into making them , Damascus in particular. ive bought some steel to get started on this.
this is where i need knowledge. i have been searching and put together a list of steels that i think will be great hopfully. heres my list the primary billet will be 1084 52100 1075 15n20 the cutting core will be made of 80crv2
is this a good combo? how should i temp treat this ? any particular stacking order? an help that anyone can give me id be very thankfull
 
A few things, thread necromancy is not a very good practive.

Second, don't start with damascus. It's pretty tricky to make, especially in billets large enough for chef knives

Third, don't start with damscus. Try making other knives first, a good number in fact. Damascus is a great way to throw away a lot of money if you don't know what you are doing

Fourth, do you plan on using ALL those steel in one damscus?
 
Fifth, don't start with chefs knives. They are not as easy as you might think. ;)
 
Learn to forge first.
The combo you listed would not be my choice. The first change I would make would be to make the 52100 the core. For the billet, stack the 1084 and 15N20 and leave out the rest. Start with a stack of six bars and weld, cut and fold - weld - repeat five times. Cut and add the core and weld. Draw out the billet into a bar and make a knife.
 
The chances of you successfully making a damascus chef knife as your first knife making project are extremely low.

I would suggest starting with a simpler, more realistic project.
 
i thank all of you for the feedback on what to start with. while this will not be the first knife i make it will be the first pattern welding i do. i am incredibly ambitious and love a challenge. that being said im set on making this work. from what ive found the steels in the main billet will give a unique contrast once etched in sulfuric acid. the 80crv2 core is purely for strength and edge retention. ive seen some Damascus with similar stacks that look amazing. thats my goal im not worried how long it takes or how much it costs its more about the experience of accomplishing something you have your heart set on. my biggest concern is if these steels play well together if i dial in the weld right with no scale will i have a problem once i start twisting to make a pattern.
i again thank all of you for your feedback
 
Jovito, if you will persist and go with the stack you are talking about we need to know a few things to possibly help you out. What equipment do you have? Power hammer, press, hand hammer only?? What kind of forge will you be using? You say you have some experience, has this been forging or stock removal? Let us know and we can give you a few more tips.
 
And A billet of that mix would not work, at least as far as I know. To have a 80crv core the 52100 is going to still be glass hard, and I know for a fact 52100 is a pain to forge with.

And why would you ask if that was a good steel mix if you were always set on using it? Its really not as far as I know. The main damascus mixes I know of are 1075/1084/1095 and 15N20, 1018 and 1095, some of the japanese uys use 1050 and 1095, and for the pros 01 and L6.

I know some of you may comment on the stainless damascus by people like Hoss, but I dont think that counts for someone who has never made damascus before.
 
Ben,

The success of the billet will depend on how much of each he used. Yes 52100 can be a pain to deal with and forge but.... There always is a but. I had a customer who wanted 52100, L6, W2, 1084, and 15n20. Now L6 and 52100 are not the easiest steel to forge weld or just plain forge. They tend to split apart when cooling and the heat ranges are way different than the other steels. I explained it would be difficult but the customer was willing to pay for the attempt so I did. I had one failure when I did not pay attention to the heat. The L6 literally pulled itself away from the 52100. Long story short I managed to get the steels to cooperate and turned out a nice knife.

Would I use these materials in my own steel?? NO. but sometimes we just want to try something different.
 
I would not use that mix. You are talking about mixing shallow hardening steels with deep hardening steels. That's a recipe for failure before you even start. They will forge much differently, and will definitely require different approaches to PROPER hardening.

Good luck. :)
 
I would not use this mix either. It is not going to be easy nor make the best possible blade. However if someone has the desire to do a project and the drive to see it through go for it. I remember many many years ago when I broached an idea of doing a sanmai with stainless over a carbon core. I was told it could not be done with the rudametary tools I had. I did not follow through with my idea. This was long before I ever saw a blade done this way. I wish I had the drive to follow through just to see what would happen. The worst that will happen is you can learn what not to do.
 
Chuck,

I guess my point was less that it was physically or metallurgicaly impossible, but rather that it might as well be for someone who has never made damascus steel, or had much experience with forge welding in general. How many billets had you made by the white you made your mixed billet?

I guess my point was I think he should do a few things. First, practice normale forge welds. Scarf welds, faggot welds, lap welds and so on. Then read like crazy. Jim'S "the pattern welded blade, artistry in iron" is the best book I know of one the topic. Then make some mild steel bars to practice welding up billets. Then move on to 15n20-1075/1084/1095 billets and once he is comfortable with those, move on to the crazy chymeric billet he is thinking 9f.

Ben Greenberg
 
Ben, I understand what you are saying. I do not agree that his ability is where it should be either. But sometimes we need to make mistakes for ourselves. Or maybe we might make a breakthrough. I see no need for any bladesmith to do scarf, lap, or even faggot welding,before attempting billet forge welding. I trained under a traditional blacksmith. He understood that I had no need to learn those techniques. I went on to billet welding while the student next to me did the scarf and other types of traditional blacksmith welding styles. We are getting off topic here so I will continue communications off this thread.

This thread, though locked, has a great explanation from Kevin Cashen. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/473630-Steel-combination-suggestions-for-damascus
 
This is the type a feedback that I would like .how do certain steel react with eachother I know that 52100 dosent like to play well but the blades ive seen made with it is gorgeous. And im not dead set on the 80crv2 core i just know its super tough and holds an edge well. As far as equipment goes i dont knon what type of forge it is but its large the guy makes swords in it alot and he has smaller ones, also a power hammer, large anvils, forge press, rolling mill and a drill press
So i think that should be sufficient its where i make my first bowie.
And chuck thank you what other experience do you have with 52100 or anyone else. I determined to make some thing amazing if its not this stack i want something that will give me similar contrast once etched , like 2 high chromium 3 well binding high carbon steels so about 4 or 5 in the main stack and a good core
 
PM. Go to the link I put in my last post. Kevin Cashen is probably the best out there irt steel interaction. I have some experience with 52100 But not a lot. Since you are planning on the steel you listed being the outer stack and will not be on the cutting edge you are only after aesthetics not performance from the stack. The center core needs to be the main focus here. I have zero experience with 80crv2 so I cannot comment on it. I know there are many steels, cruforge-v for one that will perform very well as a cutting edge.

I think what many here are trying to tell you is if you try and fail you may become discouraged. This is a very hard project for experienced smiths much less one with no forge welding success. If you want to go through with it then be prepared for possible delaminations, severe warping, and possible cracking of the blade. Can it be done yes for sure. Should it, well that has to be a personal decision. I sent you an email. If you would like some more in depth assistance let me know.
 
Thank you for your input and experience. Your passion for this artform shows through your willingness to help someone follow in this path many thanks i will be in touch. And if any of you need help in the culinary field dont be shy i would love to help
 
After all is said and done it comes down to having fun, at least it is for me. As soon as someone says oh you can't do that it makes me want to try. I'm not in anyway saying to ignore any advise given at all as it's wise to learn from others mistakes and wisdom. What I mean is I like to atack impossible problems head on and see what I can do and learn. But this also requires the skill, knowledge and tools to tackle said obstacle. One way we build up our Arsenal of tools and knowlodge is by trial and error and having fun. I forged my first Damascus blade in 2001 right after I watched Jim Hrisoulas Damascus video. I ordered a forge and welded up a Damascus billit and forged a knife. It was also my very first time forging a blade. So it was alot of firsts for me but I had one hell of a good time and I still have the knife. I looked it over today and gave it a good critiquing and besides the funky blade shape the resembled a ran over banana I was impressed with my welding. So with this all said just remember that we are all here to help how ever we can and steer you down the right path. If you are like me you will get distracted along that path and go off in some wild direction slashing and fighting. Some times it works out and other times you realize you need to back track to the standard warn path and continue a little while longer. Hum I just realized I went on and on with out giving any actual Damascus advise lol, tip #1 just because you can get 2 diffrent metals to stick to each other does not mean it's good for knives. Tip #2 allways keep the heat treating in mind when selecting the steels. Tip #3 just because somthing gets hard does not mean it's a good knife blade. Tip #4 borax is your friend but this does not excuse shoddy surface prep. Tip #5 HAVE FUN ALLWAYS
 
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