I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Larrin, May 1, 2020.

  1. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    The "loses initial sharpness" thing is one that comes up frequently over the years in reference to all sorts of steels. Ironically in this case I've also seen many people say it about ZDP-189. Until there is some clear pattern or a standardized test I can't take it any more seriously than anecdote. Perhaps if people only said it about coarse carbide steels and not fine carbide steels, or only when comparing steels of different hardness. But the only trends I have seen are bias and placebo.
     
    Eli Chaps likes this.
  2. dimiw1337

    dimiw1337

    158
    Feb 25, 2019
    would be true but aeb-l you can sharpen with a brick of butter and it takes one of the finest edges in the business. there is no advantage 52100 over aeb-l.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
    Noremac258 likes this.
  3. Fixall

    Fixall Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 26, 2018
    Yea, I've sharpened AEB-L and it sharpens real nice. It's really easy to tell it's related to the Sandvik 12c, 13c, 14c steels. The only real reason I could see someone choosing 52100 over AEB-L is because of the aesthetics carbon steel brings to the table, which I'll admit is important to me.
     
  4. Dominick Maone

    Dominick Maone

    71
    Oct 14, 2018
    Larrin, amazing article. I have probably read it four times. How low in the Catra scale do you think titanium would be? I think it would be interesting to see quantatively how much worse the edge retention of titanium is vs these other steels. Or does everyone think titanium is pointless in a knife now that LC200N is available to makers? One thing I really like about titanium is the ability to make a knife quickly since no heat treat is required. Thanks again for putting those results together.
     
    Larrin likes this.
  5. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    Not sure
     
  6. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    I have some beta c titanium here. I’ll make a test piece.
     
  7. ShannonSteelLabs

    ShannonSteelLabs KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Sep 9, 2015
    Make sure you talk to @Mecha
    He has lots of knowledge with TI.
     
    Willie71 likes this.
  8. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    Chuck at AKS has a protocol that can get to Rc60 apparently.
     
    ShannonSteelLabs likes this.
  9. ShannonSteelLabs

    ShannonSteelLabs KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Sep 9, 2015
    Woaaa I was unaware of that.
    I'll have to check it out.
     
  10. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    he told me he hasn’t tested it himself but a heat treater he was working with gave him the protocol. I’ll report how it works once I finish grinding the knife.
     
    ShannonSteelLabs likes this.
  11. ShannonSteelLabs

    ShannonSteelLabs KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Sep 9, 2015
    Excellent!!!
     
    Willie71 likes this.
  12. sodak

    sodak Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 26, 2004
    Nice Larrin, thank you for this! I'll take my sacred cow medium rare with ketchup.... :D

    You realize, of course, that we will be debating/arguing/discussing the results for years to come. That's what I love about Bladeforums!
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
    Larrin likes this.
  13. Rapt_up

    Rapt_up Gold Member Gold Member

    939
    May 4, 2012
    Have read this and I have to say that if you want real performance then chose an outer edge steel and have it run hard and ground thin. with a low angle sharpening. All mass produced knives shy away from this, and many makers do too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
    Alsharif and ShannonSteelLabs like this.
  14. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero Triple B Handmade, Custom Knives Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Mar 22, 2014
    *update

    Just got done surface grinding.


    [​IMG]

    These are the next steels to be tested by @Larrin
     
  15. CarsonWayne

    CarsonWayne Basic Member Basic Member

    222
    Mar 2, 2020
    Can't wait, especially, since I just purchased Para 3s in XHP, Maxamet and Rex 45.
     
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  16. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse

    102
    Apr 9, 2019
    I can't wait to see how awesome M398 is, how crappy XHP is and how boring SPY27 is.
     
  17. jstn

    jstn Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 27, 2012
    Larrin, you mentione in the article that there is a hole when it comes to stainless steels between the tougher steels and steels with good edge retention. It seems from your charts that Nitro-V starts to kind of fill that gap. What are your thoughts on Nitro-V?
     
  18. patrickguignot

    patrickguignot

    265
    Sep 10, 2015
    I think the plan (and the hope) is to fill this hole with the future NioMax.
     
    ShannonSteelLabs likes this.
  19. Fixall

    Fixall Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 26, 2018
    Doesn’t AEB-L or 14c28n bridge that gap even better? Seems like you can run AEB-L or 14c28n a bit harder than Nitro-V to squeak out a bit more edge retention, while keeping the same toughness.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
    jstn likes this.
  20. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    Nitro-V did not show an edge retention improvement over AEB-L and the toughness was somewhat lower. I prefer 14C28N for the corrosion resistance improvement.
     
    jstn likes this.

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