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Illegal Heat Treating?!? (S90V related)

T

The_Guide

Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
604
I was reading a review on Scott Cook's Lochsa and there was mention of the heat treat used on S90V. It said that to get the highest wear resistance out of S90V it must be heat treated to extremely high temperatures. Apparently the technology to do so is illegal in California. Here is a quote from the review:

Quoted from http://zknives.com/knives/custom/sclochsa.shtml

...Alas, there is no complete perfection in this world. In this case the trouble because blade hardness. Lochsa is speced at 59-60. By no means it is low, but S90V for my purposes, or light cutting can be safely pushed all the way to 62HRC. Phil Wilson does it. Unfortunately P. Boss who does heat treating for Scott cited that thanks to CA laws he can't use equipment that'd bring hardness on S90V to 62HRC. Which is a bummer.
1 HRC in those cases can be up to 20% of wear resistance. Though that doesn't directly translate into edge holding, still it maters a lot, especially for light cutting. On the other hand, S90V at 60HRC is still plenty more wear resistance than other stainless steels including S30V, which most of the makers now run at 58-59. Most, because P. Boss does it that way. Yes, there are makers out there who push S30V to 61-62 too. Anyways, P. Boss has a good reputation in his area, and S90V heat treated by him even at 60HRC is a fine result. At least so far it has been holding up very well. Could've been better though ;)
Click to expand...


Could anyone elaborate on this for me?

Thanks
The_Guide :cool:
 
should'nt be illegal to use high heat, i mean just look at the temp of the air spewing out of the Totalitarian Overlords mouths in Cali.....
 
Sound like CA needs to form its own country or fall off into the sea with the next quake!! The founding fathers must be spinning in their graves!!
 
I'd always heard Bos didn't like the high temp soaks due to decreased element life in the oven. The truth is that we don't know untill we talk to P. Bos.

I will say that Phil Wilson can make your knife, and treat it the way it works out best for your needs. He does his own heat treatment obviously, and is well versed in the crucible steels. Joe
 
The Bos process needs temperatures attainable only by burning live puppies, used car batteries and spent nuclear fuel. The Man kept him down until he moved to a state that would look the other way.
 
I suspect it's an environmental concern. Even so, California is the most massively stupid state in the Union. I suspect the legislators drink their own tap water.

CaliforniaFlag_1.jpg
 
Confederate said:
I suspect it's an environmental concern. Even so, California is the most massively stupid state in the Union. I suspect the legislators drink their own tap water.
Click to expand...

Another frustrated Wine & Cheeser.
Keep the discussion on the knives and the heat treat.
 
patrickcudd said:
Sound like CA needs to form its own country or fall off into the sea with the next quake!! The founding fathers must be spinning in their graves!!
Click to expand...

Hey, hey, hey, I live here in CA...

And every word you said is true... :D
 
Esav Benyamin said:
How would you know? Did you read it on the internet? :D
Click to expand...

I do believe that I heard Rush say it was so. ;)

Or maybe that was the one about black cars in California.

My guess is that it isn't illegal, just that all the hoops they'd have to jump thru to get a permit were more trouble than they were worth.
 
IF that statement is true, it was probably more likely due to permitting issues, as has been pointed out. I manage a hazardous waste facility in Kalifornia, and the regulatory climate for us is incredible.

Paul does his heat treating in Idaho now. Ask him about it.

And not everything is illegal here. Unlike some states (IL and NY come to mind) it is easy to get a CCW here if you live in the right county, like I do.
 
The_Guide said:
I was reading a review on Scott Cook's Lochsa and there was mention of the heat treat used on S90V. It said that to get the highest wear resistance out of S90V it must be heat treated to extremely high temperatures. Apparently the technology to do so is illegal in California. Here is a quote from the review:




Could anyone elaborate on this for me?

Thanks
The_Guide :cool:
Click to expand...

Without knowing the law in question and the temperatures Mr. Bos requires, I cannot comment. It is possible that the local environmental regulations require extra equipment not required by other areas of the country. That does not make us retarded. It just makes it more expensive to do business here.

My company performs metal forming operations that require high temperatures (1800+F ) and has no issues with the state.

Alas the technical details often get lost when an issue is repeated from one non-technical person to another to another. So we have no way to know to what laws or temperatures or actual limitations Mr. Bos was referring.
 
Perhaps such high temperatures are known to cause cancer in the state of California?
 
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