~Project Complete!~ I'm making friction folders! What blade steels do you want to see in them?

[ShannonSteelLabs]

Personally, I'd love to see something more exotic like Cru-Wear. Likely not cost effective, though. CPM-154 is an excellent choice for great well rounded performance.

I support the cruwear idea love that steel. Bring it to 61HRC or 62HRC and boom exellent.

 

[NJBillK]

On the subject of detent : I never had the need for it. Adequately tightening the pivot point makes for enough retaining force when closed, while still allowing easy one hand opening. It's a simple, efficient and age old design. Adding the bells and whistles of modern folders would spoil it, IMO.

A simple adjustable pivot, with PB washers is my preference, but Nylatron washers will work as well.

I support the cruwear idea love that steel. Bring it to 61HRC or 62HRC and boom exellent.

I do have to say that Cruwear is one of my favorite alloys. Holds a keen and working edge comparable to S30V, but has Way higher toughness, but slightly less stain resistance.

Quick anecdote: I was cutting a box open in a warehouse with a Cruwear Manix 2, and I was bumped by someone with an 80lb box. My knife came out of the box at speed and blasted a steel pallet rack. Near half of the primary bevel sunk into the low carbon steel rack, and I only had a slight roll that I was able to fix with a butchers steel.

I was immediately made a fan of the alloy. It sharpens quickly, doesn't hold a stubborn burr, isn't that prone to staining, and while I like a toothy edge, it takes a polished edge just fine.

 

[dkb45]

I've found the keen edge holding of Cru-Wear vastly superior to S30V. A couple of cuts through cardboard and you can already start to notice a loss of razor edge with S30V, but I've had the razor edge on Cru-Wear last longer than the total edge on AUS-8. That's why I'm super curious to try Spectrumwear, it's supposed to be the same thing with a slightly different composition, lower vanadium could lead to it having better razor edge performance.

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

dkb45
I'm not really in love with the idea of a detent ball being added; that would mean the addition of liners (extra machining time, higher final cost), and as herisson commented, horizontal blade play to allow for the movement. If a detent absolutely had to be added, I would opt for a button-lock style, but then that's yet more parts to make. Again, I would like to keep this as inexpensive as I can while still being a well made friction folder. For what it's worth, the friction folders I have used and carried over the years never had any real detent to them, and have worked just fine carried loose in a pocket.

herisson
A leather sheath with a clip would be nice... It would certainly add to the cost but it's not a bad idea as an add-on for those who want one.

ShannonSteelLabs
CruWear looks like a right pain to heat treat without two kilns; as I only have one for the moment, I'd have to outsource those. Doable, but for a standard run I'd like to keep as much in-house as I can.

 

[shinyedges]

CPM 154 would be a wise decision, unless you want slightly more toughness at the expense of customers "preferring the upgraded version", in which case 154cm makes a nice EDC blade.

The reason why I stated the above is I noticed that 154cm/CPM 154 is about where folks draw the line for alloys. Many folks will be perfectly fine with CPM 154, but will balk at 154cm. Both take a really nice 400 grit edge, that will work for most folks for the day (or more) and is easy to touch up.

I have found that CPM 154 tends to hold less of a burr, and takes as keen (or keener) edge more quickly, but it lacks some of the toughness of 154cm. On 154cm, the burrs aren't exactly stubborn, just slightly more so when compared to CPM 154. As a friction folder, I would prefer ease of maintenance over toughness.

S35Vn would be a nice option, but may bump up the price a bit. That being said, this would probably be offset by the additional customers that find CPM154 to be a little basic by now. Those are also the folks that find S35Vn to be rather Vanilla, but acceptable.

I would prefer S35Vn, but would probably still be in the market for CPM154, depending upon price.
Best of luck, I have always loved a friction folder.
Any way to work a cap lifter into the equation?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it appears you are saying 154cm is tougher than cpm154? Where did you hear that?

 

[NJBillK]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it appears you are saying 154cm is tougher than cpm154? Where did you hear that?

I went back to my source, a thread that @Larrin did on Toughness of AEB-L, CPM154, D2, and another alloy, and I thought I read it in there, but I had misread/remembered incorrectly. I will be editing my post for accuracy.

That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to AEB-L.

 

[shinyedges]

I went back to my source, a thread that @Larrin did on Toughness of AEB-L, CPM154, D2, and another alloy, and I thought I read it in there, but I had misread/remembered incorrectly. I will be editing my post for accuracy.

That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to AEB-L.

Gotchya, .

 

[dkb45]

dkb45
I'm not really in love with the idea of a detent ball being added; that would mean the addition of liners (extra machining time, higher final cost), and as herisson commented, horizontal blade play to allow for the movement. If a detent absolutely had to be added, I would opt for a button-lock style, but then that's yet more parts to make. Again, I would like to keep this as inexpensive as I can while still being a well made friction folder. For what it's worth, the friction folders I have used and carried over the years never had any real detent to them, and have worked just fine carried loose in a pocket.

herisson
A leather sheath with a clip would be nice... It would certainly add to the cost but it's not a bad idea as an add-on for those who want one.

ShannonSteelLabs
CruWear looks like a right pain to heat treat without two kilns; as I only have one for the moment, I'd have to outsource those. Doable, but for a standard run I'd like to keep as much in-house as I can.

So I'm guessing LC200N is right out too then?

I'm up for anything exotic that you can do. CPM-154 isn't exactly common, if that's what you can do I can live with it easily

 

[19-3ben]

That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to AEB-L.

Totally. Another fantastic and inexpensive steel.

Of course, this is coming from a guy with a 1075 blade in his pocket at the moment. The steel would be lowest on my priority list.

 

[19-3ben]

Again, I would like to keep this as inexpensive as I can while still being a well made friction folder.

You’ve mentioned the budget friendly aspect of this a few times.

Obviously not holding you to anything, but what price point are you aiming for with this?

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

You’ve mentioned the budget friendly aspect of this a few times.

Obviously not holding you to anything, but what price point are you aiming for with this?

Well, should I make them with S35VN, G10 and chicago screws, I have a current estimate of $125 USD. Using other steels from the poll would make it cheaper of course.

 

[19-3ben]

Well, should I make them with S35VN, G10 and chicago screws, I have a current estimate of $125 USD. Using other steels from the poll would make it cheaper of course.

You have no idea how interested I am....

 

[herisson]

And so am I... The price looks definitely correct to me, especially if you eventually go with CPM154 and it's even lower (would make for my clip sheath, he, he...). The only deal breaker would be the weird drop point blade (and I hope dearly the longitudinal ridges or channels are not part of the end design). A classic drop point, clip point and most of all, a trailing point would be great.

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

19-3ben
Glad to hear it!

herisson
Hey...! Fair enough! The current blade shape was something that I wanted to try making to see how I liked using it. Making a regular drop, clip, and trailing point version available wouldn't be too difficult.
The lines along the blade are caused by the layer-by-layer 3D printing process used to make the plastic prototype. Although there will be some indication of having been milled in the steel version of the blade, those will be much more subtle and could be removed entirely.

 

[herisson]

Hey, I guess I'm hopelessly traditional ! Whatever the outcome, it's thrilling to be involved in the "making of". Thanks for that ! I will be following you and the thread.

 

[dirc]

Good to see a fellow Cannuck here. Ultimately, I think most people would choose the s35vn (if similar in price) - it really is a great steel. I'd gladly pay the $10 or $20 difference for it... (I don't think it should even be that much more than cpm154)

Make the lock as strong & sturdy as possible

PS - what's with the double line near the blade? (almost looks like a fuller in the wrong place)... it seems pronounced, and likely to affect slicing ability/speed. Maybe I just don't have any experience with it.

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

herisson
No shame in that, at all! Traditional knives are awesome, I'd like to try my hand at making slipjoints at some point.
It has been fun getting responses to this thread over the last few days, I'll have to make another when I am ready to get production rolling. Thank you for the support!

D dirc
You're right, the price difference between CPM 154 and S35VN actually isn't that large. There won't be a lock, however, as the design is strictly meant to be a friction folder; it will be held open by gripping the handle.
As for the lines you are seeing, that is just a feature of having been 3D printed, and won't be there in the real steel version. However, as I am working on a CNC mill, there will be some evidence of the tool paths I make for the blade bevels. The difference between high and low points have been less than 0.1mm, or 0.003" on other blades I have made, and they do not seem to affect cutting performance in any meaningful way.

 

[mbp]

I'll also get behind the suggestion of AEB-L, should have thought of that earlier. Should be considerably cheaper than S35VN or even CPM154. I like all 3 steels for sure, but AEB-L to me just seems to fit this project best.

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

I'll also get behind the suggestion of AEB-L, should have thought of that earlier. Should be considerably cheaper than S35VN or even CPM154. I like all 3 steels for sure, but AEB-L to me just seems to fit this project best.

That's not a bad idea. I'll look into how easily I could get AEB-L in as a standard option. Might even add it to the poll, although compared to S35VN and either 154 variant, the edge holding won't be quite as nice.

EDIT; Looking at the heat treatment, I'd need a second kiln, similar to CruWear. I could always farm that out... but that'll raise the end price a touch... I think I just need to buy a second kiln!

 

[NJBillK]

That's not a bad idea. I'll look into how easily I could get AEB-L in as a standard option. Might even add it to the poll, although compared to S35VN and either 154 variant, the edge holding won't be quite as nice.

EDIT; Looking at the heat treatment, I'd need a second kiln, similar to CruWear. I could always farm that out... but that'll raise the end price a touch... I think I just need to buy a second kiln!

But AEB-L will be tougher and take a keener edge, as well as being more responsive to a strop and able to be touched up with a Butcher steel.

It also goes by the name 13c26, iirc.