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Imperial Cuchilleria hecho en Mexico=Imperial Cutlery made in Mexico

Discussion in 'Schrade Knives Collectors Forum' started by Larry303, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. Timstools

    Timstools

    621
    Jan 5, 2007
    They nearly did, I had this horrible warning come up telling me I was only allowed to do 10 at one time. Thats why you will see I have split them up in seperate posts.
    Regards Tim
     
  2. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    I'm bringing this interesting story back to the top. When I get time I will add Larry303's pictures from another current thread.
     
  3. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    Moved the regular old timer member way.

    [​IMG]
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    Last edited: May 1, 2015
  4. delmas2nd

    delmas2nd Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 14, 2008
    don't you just love all this inside history. keep the stories coming. i for one enjoy them and gives my small collection more depth. thanks for all the effort, i know this has been said before but one can not say enough for all the great effort put out by some of the great guys in this forum.
     
  5. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    I intended to add a short section from Baer's memoirs regarding Joe Foster but I don't have the file on this computer. I'll add that when I get time. Baer mentions no dates and doesn't reveal a lot of detail. And as several people have recommended to me, take his own narratives with a grain of salt as he was always the consummate salesman no matter what he was selling. Still he seemed to have a mind like a steel trap and didn't appear to forget anything. Ever.
     
  6. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    Many thanks Codger. In answer to your question re any other salesman's samples. I have only ever seen one other with the salesman sample Number on the red tape on handle to identify. It was No 5105-P, Toothpick/ Tickler single blade & bale/white handle..... I have a couple of photos of it....have you seen other examples with the identification numbers?.... I know there are a few examples of the knives tang stamped I/Mexico however I have not seen any others with the salesman Number designations on the red tape on the handles.......I wonder if those examples are among the possibly few in number, they actually did sell?....
    We've come a long way with recording their history since that first post back in 2007 <8 years ago>...we've managed to flesh out, quash some myths, and in some cases correct, quite a few history accounts in this Forum over past years.....thanks again for your help mate..Hoo Roo
     
  7. Bloefield

    Bloefield

    658
    Aug 2, 2013
    Most interesting.
    Thanks for this.
    Harold
     
  8. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    One is glad to be of service. As best I can remember, the others which sold did not have the red tape. Nor did mine. That tape was notorious for adhesive failure and while each of them may have originally had them, they were not present to the best of my memory. I was offered the roll before you bought it but declined for lack of funds, thus I wound up with only the three.

    I am under the impression that this was not a salesman's roll at all but intended as a presentation roll for internal use. And the numbers most likely pattern/material numbers correlating to the molds. Unfortunately it seems that like so much of the earlier (pre-1983) Imperial archives, the original papers on this project would up in the dump during the move of machines and materials from Prov. R.I. We are indeed lucky to have this (prototype I think) roll and the examples contained.

    As with the Baer memoirs section, the pictures I have of my three are on my other computer and I will have to fetch them. I do note that the missing photos from this early thread the helper mentions 33 knives, I think, while you note 22.

    I've not yet compared the molds of the deer head on my Mexico example with the same art on a U.S. Imperial knife to see if it is the same molds. Another think I need to get around to, eh?

    In my typical habit of rambling on with a topic of interest, this thread is a perfect illustration of why printed media on Schrade history is intrinsicly flawed. The knowledge of Schrade and affiliates history is constantly evolving and though the content of a printed publication contains information to the best of an author's knowledge at that time, it is often outdated shortly thereafter. We see this with the books authored by Levine, Voyles and Goins. All important references of course. However IMHO the work we do and publish here, and Larry's (LRV's) archive sites are much more valuable and available in that new content is added constantly as information comes to light. Imagine I had printed a book in 2007 (lack of doing so I was recently pilloried for elsewhere here), how much information would have been lacking?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2015
  9. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    The moulds are similar however not identical....the stag horns show clearly they are different moulds....the USA Imperial is the smaller 2 blade folder....
    The full story of Foster Grant and the Mexico connection is told in Albert's own words in his memoirs....together with a couple of photos of the Mexico meeting in 22/9/1946....I'll scan and post.....we're getting closer....Hoo Roo
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    Albert's personal memoirs regarding the original Foster Grant / Mexico connection.....and the ""modified"" moulding machines..plus under Albert's photo heading 'Fun at a meeting in Mexico 9/22/1946......more interesting history..Hoo Roo
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    Looks like there may have been a few <very few?> Commercial SFO's <Special Factory Orders> whilst Imperial Mexico still had their factory in Monteray Mexico...maybe a sample/example of a non existant Company intended to be used in promotion of their SFO services?....can anyone make out what Company is being promoted on this handle inscription?...the knife has tang stamping Cuchilleria Imperial Mexico.....an interesting aside is I now notice at least one of my Schrade Factory collection examples has the number <mould number? or Salesman's sample number?> etched clearly on its master blade in addition to the identical number being displayed on the adhesive strip on its handle..of significance?..<.I havn't re-opened the others yet to check their master blades for etches>.....Hoo Roo
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  12. Maroochyman

    Maroochyman

    13
    Sep 23, 2014
    Thank you Larry for once again entrusting me with another of your treasures . It would of been such a shame to see the Mexico=Imperial Cutlery set broken up.
    They are now bedded down in the Maroochyman stable Down Under with the rest of the thoroughbreds.

    I'm as "Happy as Larry" ha ha
     
  13. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    Good on you Maroochy, win/win situation..my three youngest grandkids all tragically on the autism spectrum receive the benefits/proceeds for much needed therapy.....
    I know they are all in safe, Schrade knowledgeable, hands......Hoo Roo
     
  14. jxr1197

    jxr1197

    17
    Dec 27, 2018
    Hechos Locos!

    These are fun to collect - with such little info out there it's like every one is a mystery. Plus there's never any high bidders chasing these Mexican Imperials. I doubt I've gone higher that $10 on any of them.

    Here's the whole lot - and I'll break them down by tang stamps too:
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    In my little group of bandidos here the most common tang stamp is the Cuchilleria Imperial Mexico
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    [​IMG]

    Next is the stamp I most associate with these knives - Imperial Hecho En Mexico
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    The knives with less real estate received the abbreviated - Imperial Mexico
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    [​IMG]

    This last stamp was a real mystery to me - Dos Ciervos Hecho En Mexico
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    [​IMG]
    The mystery with the Ciervos stamp was that I first found the brown knife and even though I strongly suspected it was a Hecho I couldn't be certain - until that black knife came along. It's got the same stamp but that is a well known Hecho pattern that Baer dubbed the 'Ticket To The Dance'. So that's the missing link here connecting Dos Ciervos to the rest of the Hechos, but of course now the question is 'why'. My theory is it's a south of the border SFO.
    [​IMG]

    Another mystery is the shell handle. How'd that come to be? It suggests a co-production effort between Mexico and Providence with the end product being delivered to a Mexican customer.
    [​IMG]

    The knife with the punch in the top pic is the only Hecho I have that's a triple spring.
    [​IMG]

    The last (and least) picture is that tiny little fingernail picker - just cause it's such a cute lil thing.
    [​IMG]

    Anyone else here into the Hechos?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
    Larry303, Codger_64 and B.Mauser like this.
  15. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    Larry303 and jxr1197 like this.
  16. winchester73

    winchester73

    705
    Jan 6, 2008
    Codger after reading this and many of your treatise over the years, I have come to the conclusion you are the "The Most Interesting Man In The (Schrade) World. The man in the Dos Equis beer commercial is merely an impostor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  17. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    Appreciate the accolades but...

    Here are my three Mexican Imperials. They were pulled from the roll before Larry bought it. So there are more patterns yet.
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
    jxr1197 likes this.
  18. jxr1197

    jxr1197

    17
    Dec 27, 2018
    I sunk my teeth in pretty hard on this strange obsession I developed over these Mexican Imperials and I dug up some of new information which helped flesh out a timeline for Cuchilleria Imperial. It's an interesting bit of Schrade lore and Larry was nice enough to host it on his site:

    https://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/articles/Pottery and Royal Poincianas.pdf
     
    Codger_64 likes this.

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