Importance of Grain Alignment?

What 300six has to say is true, but the fact is, heart wood and sap wood handle vibration and stress in different ways. When you have a handle that is half heart half sap, you have a handle that has two very different types of wood in it. I would caution you to either go heart wood or sap, not both.

One more thing, was the tree 'down' out in the wild? Please be careful of dry rotting. Inspect the wood carefully at all stages of working.
 
jpeeler said:
What 300six has to say is true, but the fact is, heart wood and sap wood handle vibration and stress in different ways. When you have a handle that is half heart half sap, you have a handle that has two very different types of wood in it. I would caution you to either go heart wood or sap, not both.

One more thing, was the tree 'down' out in the wild? Please be careful of dry rotting. Inspect the wood carefully at all stages of working.
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No, it was downed by a Arborist in a residential area. The tree was just getting too big and the roots started to interfere with the homes foundation. It was a very healthy tree.

What would be the best way to season the wood? Should I split out the pieces I will work off or leave whole in log form? I have only seasoned wood for burning during the winter and that consists of splitting and let sit for a year, very simple.
 
300Six said:
This is what causes the discolouration and should not have much affect on strength and durability.
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Correct. The USFS did studies on heart wood vs. sap wood and found them to be essentially identical as far as physical properties go.


Heartwood%20vs%20sapwood.jpg



More important is growth rings per inch. Try try to stay within the range of 5-20 GR/inch.
 
Good to know; thanks 300six and Square_peg.

Is the distaste for heartwood in part because it is more difficult to work with? At least I've found on handles that have it that it's harder to remove material than it is from the sapwood portions.
 

Sometimes even perfect grain cracks.First tree,29 miles packed in,Green white fur:mad:Second hit,drove the heel,crack,Didn't hit top wood,New handle(Pictures to follow) has some grain run out,near the end,do I worry? no! But I do pack a extra ax:D
]
 
 
forgive me for questioning you mooscreek... I'm sure I'm wrong, but the more I look at the picture of your broken handle it seems to me that 1) the grain was perpendicular to the bit, and 2) it did run out at the top, which is why it breaks below the eye like that. As 300six put it "the grain literally 'runs out'" of the handle, as it is shorter than the length of the handle. Though the break happens in a different direction, it otherwise looks very similar to the break in the picture I posted on page 1, beginning just below the axe head where the grain 'runs out'.
 
I've had an almost identical break as moosecreek's pictured above. The grain orientation was "perfect," but the downfall in my opinion was that the hickory was too brittle. The growth rings were extremely tight and the wood was super hard. It snapped just the same as Moose's across the grain. Clearly a crack that resulted from the inability to sustain the shock.

wdmn said:
forgive me for questioning you mooscreek... I'm sure I'm wrong, but the more I look at the picture of your broken handle it seems to me that 1) the grain was perpendicular to the bit, and 2) it did run out at the top, which is why it breaks below the eye like that. As 300six put it "the grain literally 'runs out'" of the handle, as it is shorter than the length of the handle. Though the break happens in a different direction, it otherwise looks very similar to the break in the picture I posted on page 1, beginning just below the axe head where the grain 'runs out'.
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It seems to me that in the pic that the grain is in line with the bit, not the other way around. Moose's second handle also looks superior in that it has a higher ratio of the smooth, buttery growth to the porous growth in the growth rings.
 
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And how many years (we're talking decades now!) did I blithely go out to the hardware store in order to buy a new axe handle with the presumption that whoever made it knew what they were doing. Either these employers became complacent, skilled workers became scarce, or purchasers increasingly relied less and less about how to judge for quality.
All of the above? Certainly I am guilty of having been gullible and naive for many trial and error years.
 
300Six said:
Looking at your last picture I have to ask: Are you intentionally leaving wedges proud of the handle so that disassembly is quick and easy and so that adjustment in the field is also made simple? Would make perfect sense to me.
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I think a lot of the timber sport dudes do this with aluminum wedges. they pound them in far enough to hold, and then drill thru the wedge where the roll pin (required for competition) hole is in the eye of the axe. pop a roll pin in the axe, and then they can use differently ground axes for different competitions on the same handle.

I might be way, way off-- but it seems like a nice theory :)
 
idaho_crosscut said:
I think a lot of the timber sport dudes do this with aluminum wedges. they pound them in far enough to hold, and then drill thru the wedge where the roll pin (required for competition) hole is in the eye of the axe. pop a roll pin in the axe, and then they can use differently ground axes for different competitions on the same handle.

I might be way, way off-- but it seems like a nice theory :)
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The factory would have to be pretty darn consistent with tolerances to be able to offer dimensionally identical heads! But yes I could see a value to something like this for competitions, although how much more work is it merely to install matching handles on to a collection of differing grind heads?
 
300Six said:
Looking at your last picture I have to ask: Are you intentionally leaving wedges proud of the handle so that disassembly is quick and easy and so that adjustment in the field is also made simple? Would make perfect sense to me.
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Yes, just until I Finish the grind,Then I pound them in on my trail axes,Only leave the racing axes like that.

wdmn said:
forgive me for questioning you mooscreek... I'm sure I'm wrong, but the more I look at the picture of your broken handle it seems to me that 1) the grain was perpendicular to the bit, and 2) it did run out at the top, which is why it breaks below the eye like that. As 300six put it "the grain literally 'runs out'" of the handle, as it is shorter than the length of the handle. Though the break happens in a different direction, it otherwise looks very similar to the break in the picture I posted on page 1, beginning just below the axe head where the grain 'runs out'.
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I dont mind the Questioning,But M3mphis has it right.

M3mphis said:
I've had an almost identical break as moosecreek's pictured above. The grain orientation was "perfect," but the downfall in my opinion was that the hickory was too brittle. The growth rings were extremely tight and the wood was super hard. It snapped just the same as Moose's across the grain. Clearly a crack that resulted from the inability to sustain the shock.



It seems to me that in the pic that the grain is in line with the bit, not the other way around. Moose's second handle also looks superior in that it has a higher ratio of the smooth, buttery growth to the porous growth in the growth rings.
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Thanks,Great answer,as always:thumbup:
idaho_crosscut said:
I think a lot of the timber sport dudes do this with aluminum wedges. they pound them in far enough to hold, and then drill thru the wedge where the roll pin (required for competition) hole is in the eye of the axe. pop a roll pin in the axe, and then they can use differently ground axes for different competitions on the same handle.

I might be way, way off-- but it seems like a nice theory :)
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I don't think its for different handles,Mostly for regrinding,when needed.
 
Jay, I try to stay off Nic's website for the sake of my financial well-being. Help me out, here!!! ;)
 
M3mphis said:
Jay, I try to stay off Nic's website for the sake of my financial well-being. Help me out, here!!! ;)
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I'm sorry brother but can you spare a dime?:D:p

Been looking at some of the bigger names out there but i settled for Nic's knives. He has been attentive to my usual boring yet aggravating questions.
 
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