In regards to failure phenomena

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That was very interesting. Thanks Howard. When I read these old threads, I wish these people were still with us. Thanks again.
 
I use to post her in the early days but I'm more of a lurker now because of lack of time. It upsets me to see the continued problems with the heat treat and the problems it is causing. Back in the day HI khuks would take well beyond any normal use without damage and even lots of abuse. I met Bill back in the early 1990's and bought well over 100 knives from him. I have a few that I use often but all of them have been tested per Bills methods to make sure they were heat treated properly. The khuks I bought from Bill have never failed except for a single handle on an AK. I have used many khukuries to chop frozen bone and butcher elk, antelope, deer, and cattle. None of the blades chipped, rolled or cracked.....ever! I have hit concrete, brick, nails and steel cable with no damage to the blade. Bill told me many stories of customers who did stuff that a knife never should without taking damage. A highway patrol officer used an AK to chop open a car because the jaws of life were to far away to wait. The AK had no damage to the blade.
There is no excuse for a khukuri to be damaged from cutting any wood on the planet(frozen or not), bones, meat, sheet metal, plastic, or what not. I say this because I have lived with khukuries for 25 years and used them under every condition known to man and they have not failed or been damaged. I expect no less from new HI khuks. My latest ones are about 3 years old and are as good as any HI I have bought in the early years. I would not hesatate to buy an HI today. I know if the heat treat was bad Yangdu and HI would make it right....no quetions!

Sory for the poor spelling and puntuatiion....it's late. LOL.
 
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@ SkagSig40

Surely you must have experienced dents and dings in the edge? I have never used an ax or knife that wouldn't occasionally take some minor damage from hitting hard materials such as rock, dirt, nails and such.

Mac
 
I dinged the edge of my M-43 last year when I used it to "disassemble" several pieces of furniture we were disposing of. The waste management company does not take whole pieces of furniture, but, I was told with a wink-and-a-nod from one of their drivers, if they are reduced to pieces and will fit into the dumpster, they will. With that, I broke out my M-43 and went to work on the frame of an ancient couch, as well as a set of broken bookshelves.

What did the damage to the edge was the 10,000 staples that are used to hold the upholstery to the frame of the couch. but the big blade still made short work of the frame, and soon it was disposed of. The bookshelf fell apart on its own after witnessing the hurting I put on the couch.... actually I knocked it over in my enthusiasm, and then gave it a few kicks to finish it off. With the offending parts safely in the dumpster I stopped to catch my breath, and saw several of my neighbors with VERY concerned looks on their faces. I re-sheathed my kukhuri, gave a small growl, and headed back to my apartment.

We had a few neighbors on that side of the complex move out within a few weeks... I hope it wasn't because of me.;)
 
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M4cr0s said:
@ SkagSig40

Surely you must have experienced dents and dings in the edge? I have never used an ax or knife that wouldn't occasionally take some minor damage from hitting hard materials such as rock, dirt, nails and such.

Mac
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Yes, there was some minor edge damage but nothing 5 minutes on a stone would not fix. More like the edge was dulled up really badly. Nothing like you see all over the place today with large chips/blown out edges, folds and broken blades. My khuks are all shaving sharp too. I see comments that a khukurie should not be shaving sharp.....mine work fine shaving sharp and always have. I feel it is another excuse for poorly heat treated blades that won't hold an edge properly and are damaged easily.
 
Chris, thanks for weighing in on this. My observations are pretty much the same as yours. No need for me to say any more. :) Thanks!!
 
SkagSig40 said:
Yes, there was some minor edge damage but nothing 5 minutes on a stone would not fix. More like the edge was dulled up really badly. Nothing like you see all over the place today with large chips/blown out edges, folds and broken blades. My khuks are all shaving sharp too. I see comments that a khukurie should not be shaving sharp.....mine work fine shaving sharp and always have. I feel it is another excuse for poorly heat treated blades that won't hold an edge properly and are damaged easily.
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No Excuse, its a fact. A khukuri does not need to be nor should it be shaving sharp for chopping wood. For other uses it may be a good thing, but not necessarily for chopping wood. Just as you need to match the khukuri for the intended work, you should also match the blade geometry and sharpness for the intended work. A khukuri should be used properly and within the limits of the steel. People tend to oversharpen and use power tools, which tend to remove more material than necessary, which can be more a cause of failures than some would like to admit. Which is precisely why the warranty includes that "any blade or edge modified so that it is unsuitable for its intended purpose" is unwarrantable. A khukuri made in the traditional manner is not some type of miracle that should withstand any type of abuse put on it, it should be used with caution and care. No knife is indestructable. To expect to abuse these khukuri without damage is wishful thinking. Rather than blame the Kamis and H.I. for shoddy workmanship one should take a good hard look at their expectations and their usage practices. To think abuse should be normal and that these types of failures did not happen when UB was alive is also wishful thinking. Perhaps the warranty would not have needed to have been changed if people had awakened sooner to just what they were doing wrong that caused it to be changed. In the past UB and Auntie bore the cost of others mistakes and it ended up taking it's toll. We are now left with a modified warranty to put the responsibility for proper usage squarely where it should lie. The fallacy that the quality of H.I. khukuri is lesser than it ever was is misinformation and not only hurts the H.I. business, but also the kami's livelihoods. In these hard times, with the difficulties faced everyday by Auntie to keep things running it is just another odd stacked upon the others that could force her to walk away from the dharma work and business altogether, then there is no warranty, no more khukuri and no more dream that was built on friendship and love.
 
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All sales and talk of sales must be in the Exchange or done privately, not in the discussion forums or in the manufacturers own forum.
 
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Hi Karda,
Well I agree with you on some areas and disagree on others. I do feel HI makes the best khuks and always has. Like I said before I would not hesatate to buy a khuk from Yangdu today because I know if the blade failed, the situation would be made right. The warranty is still a good warranty and is fair(face it, some folks should not have knives). I do think the current kami's are a talented bunch but are not quite up to the old ones from years past. If they could just work out the issues with proper heat treating and get the blades more consistent....

I'm ordering another AK and Bonecutter as soon as the right one catches my eye. I have a certain shape I have been watching for.....
 
wildmanh said:
Chris, thanks for weighing in on this. My observations are pretty much the same as yours. No need for me to say any more. :) Thanks!!
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Hi Heber!
How the heack have you been? What are you up to these days? Get any shooting in? Have a website up for you stuff?
 
SkagSig40 said:
If they could just work out the issues with proper heat treating and get the blades more consistent....
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There is no more problem with the heat treat or consistancy than there ever was.
We had a spat of difficulty recently due to the proper coal not being available, which made it difficult for the kamis to set the pine. This has been dealt with to the best of our abilities and we will continue to monitor and rectify any difficuties. We will also honor the warranty and replace any that slip thru that are defected in manufacture, but we can no longer bear the burden of those who subject the khukuri to abuses which no knife should have to bear by any reasonable person. All we ask is that our customers be as reasonable and forgiving in these hard times as Uncle and Auntie have been to all for many, many years.
 
Karda said:
There is no more problem with the heat treat or consistancy than there ever was.
We had a spat of difficulty recently due to the proper coal not being available, which made it difficult for the kamis to set the pine. This has been dealt with to the best of our abilities and we will continue to monitor and rectify any difficuties. We will also honor the warranty and replace any that slip thru that are defected in manufacture, but we can no longer bear the burden of those who subject the khukuri to abuses which no knife should have to bear by any reasonable person. All we ask is that our customers be as reasonable and forgiving in these hard times as Uncle and Auntie have been to all for many, many years.
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Fair enough and good to know!
 
A general word of caution. A few forum posts, either positive or negative do not necessarily mean a product is flawed or mans greatest creation ever. What I call "fixated ideas" and "hype", often caused by a vocal individual with one or two items failing or glorious subjective reviews tends to become a kind of local forum plague and also often a war of words between "fanboys" and naysayers yielding nothing but wasted time in reality. This is certainly not objective, scientific "proof" of one allegation versus the other. A frequent participant of various computer, gaming and photography usenet groups and later web discussion boards since '94 I've seen this time and time again and you do have to be vary not to get caught in it at times. That said, discussions on this board is extremely civil, a pleasant break from most forums :)

Like with most things in life: stop, breathe, think, evaluate, consider and keep an open mind even when having reached a conclusion.

Mac
 
Karda,

I hope your wife is doing better, and Smoke and prayers headed your way.

I was a Lurker, then I was active for a bit, then I turned into a lurker again, mostly sad to say, because of the rumors that HI quality has been decaying.
Let me say I do not own a HI knife, I wanted to, but was frankly scared off them by a defection by some people that I knew to be die hard HI fans.
The did not say that HI was producing a bad product, but what I heard over and over was HI isnt what it used to be.
This may be because of an influx of inexperienced users who are causing damage by being careless, it may be a heat treat issue, or it may even just be a percieved problem, and not a consistantly real one.

It is however a problem for HI that the perception is that "HI isnt what it used to be" Regardless of what the reality of the cause or the issue is.

I am very impressed that you opened this up for public discussion Karda, I am not suprised, because HI has always been open and available, but I am Impressed, that you saw a problem and opened it up to see what could or should be done.

I dont know if there is a legit QC problem or a decline in quality, but the perception of it definitely exists, and is only becoming wider spread, and in all likelyhood more exaggerated as well.


I would say that considering conditions that the kamis work under, a mistake here or there is understandable, but why it seems like a recent epidemic, is what needs to be addressed, especially since many knife makers here also use an old school stove for heat treating and an quenching.

Stick with your warranty, Back your knives like you always have, and as long as you resolve any real issues in the production stages this too shall pass.
Personally I eagerly await hearing " Holy Crap you should see the stuff coming out of HI's shops again !" Because the second that becomes a consistant reality again, I will be saving my dollars to purchase from HI and I know a LOT of other people who will do the same again.

Silverthorn
 
Silverthorn said:
Karda,

I hope your wife is doing better, and Smoke and prayers headed your way.

I was a Lurker, then I was active for a bit, then I turned into a lurker again, mostly sad to say, because of the rumors that HI quality has been decaying.
Let me say I do not own a HI knife, I wanted to, but was frankly scared off them by a defection by some people that I knew to be die hard HI fans.
The did not say that HI was producing a bad product, but what I heard over and over was HI isnt what it used to be.
This may be because of an influx of inexperienced users who are causing damage by being careless, it may be a heat treat issue, or it may even just be a percieved problem, and not a consistantly real one.

It is however a problem for HI that the perception is that "HI isnt what it used to be" Regardless of what the reality of the cause or the issue is.

I am very impressed that you opened this up for public discussion Karda, I am not suprised, because HI has always been open and available, but I am Impressed, that you saw a problem and opened it up to see what could or should be done.

I dont know if there is a legit QC problem or a decline in quality, but the perception of it definitely exists, and is only becoming wider spread, and in all likelyhood more exaggerated as well.


I would say that considering conditions that the kamis work under, a mistake here or there is understandable, but why it seems like a recent epidemic, is what needs to be addressed, especially since many knife makers here also use an old school stove for heat treating and an quenching.

Stick with your warranty, Back your knives like you always have, and as long as you resolve any real issues in the production stages this too shall pass.
Personally I eagerly await hearing " Holy Crap you should see the stuff coming out of HI's shops again !" Because the second that becomes a consistant reality again, I will be saving my dollars to purchase from HI and I know a LOT of other people who will do the same again.

Silverthorn
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Thank you Silverthorn,
I take her in for more tests tomorrow, so we shall see.

As a member who showed up roughly 2 years after UB's passing, Having had many of H.I.'s products come thru my hands both from the old shops and old kami's and from the new shops and kami's i think i'm pretty qualified to know the truth of the matter of H.I. quality. Having spent the last 2 years helping Auntie also has given me particular information and perspective. I havent counted lately, but my collection is about 30 or so various items from H.I.. I try to limit my collection to true collecibles, items/designs that i like and users/choppers.

In addition to my duties as moderator for her (plus supermod duty), i also help her with warranty return and repair. I refurbish salvagable khukuri for resale as blem items, help her with handle repairs due to reno heat, Help to improve the quality of any items sent than can be or need improvement to be H.I. quality and anything else that Auntie needs me to do.....
I struck me as a bit odd that i would end up with all this responsibility when many, many older members professed to never let Uncles dream die and would stand by the company. I don't claim to know their motivations for "defecting" , as you say, but i will say that i'm still a bit surprised by it and the seemingly hostile repoir that some have shown. Kudos to those who've remained loyal and have done their best to help out in however many ways they have.

As to quality. As one who's read the archives, seen the pics, been on the forum almost everyday for 5 years and has handled as many old and new items as i have, i can safely state that the quality of H.I. is pretty much the same in the manufacturing area and in the Finish area what i see today is possibly even a bit of improvement in quality most days.The QC issues we've had are not really any more prevalent than in the past, as any oldtimer should know, even when Uncle was alive there were bouts of QC issues from time to time. As always H.I. has stood by it's customers and made them satisfied.
One need not listen to rumor and speculation of members who've chosen to remove themselves from our little community and spread them instead of politely addressing their concerns with those whom can do something about it. One need not be afraid to purchase from H.I. as the quality is there and Auntie, as always, will take care of her customers to the best of her ability. H.I. has always been virually transparent with its friends and would greatly like and appreciate being able to continue to do so and include them in assisting in the dharma work while providing them the best khukuri and service in the world.

Has Himalayan Imports changed a bit since Uncle left us? sure it has, how could it not? The business and industry has changed as well as some of our friends and customers lives have changed. It's all part of the grand scheme of life. We all continue to evolve daily. But you can rest assured that the dharma mission in Uncles honor, H.I.'s committment to quality khukuri, to its customers and the people of Nepal remains unchanged.
 
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FWIW, I'll chime in from a newbie's perspective that may be relevant to those who are new and unsure about buying a HI.

I decided to buy a HI because they're handmade and they look great on the HI website. It was my understanding (which could be wrong) that I could probably get a knife with more consistent QC from a modern manufacturer. Nevertheless, the hand crafted aspect of the HI knives drove me to take a chance so I bought a 15" Sirupati made by Bhakkta Kami. I didn't know I was buying a knife made by Bhakkta Kami when I made my purchase. I had to search for the mark on this forum to learn who made my knife.

I read the warranty for the knife and it wasn't warranted for heavy chopping. But I felt that I had to test the blade so I used it to chop a green tree stump. It passed my test without any breakage to the blade. I guess I got lucky.

Is my knife weaker than older knives? I have no idea. All I know is that my knife looks beautiful to me, and for a model that's considered a lightweight, my sirupati looks and performs well enough for me. Besides, every knife purchase is a gamble in my experience, and I don't regret buying a HI khukuri.
 
Browning A Bolt said:
FWIW, I'll chime in from a newbie's perspective that may be relevant to those who are new and unsure about buying a HI.

I decided to buy a HI because they're handmade and they look great on the HI website. It was my understanding (which could be wrong) that I could probably get a knife with more consistent QC from a modern manufacturer. Nevertheless, the hand crafted aspect of the HI knives drove me to take a chance so I bought a 15" Sirupati made by Bhakkta Kami. I didn't know I was buying a knife made by Bhakkta Kami when I made my purchase. I had to search for the mark on this forum to learn who made my knife.

I read the warranty for the knife and it wasn't warranted for heavy chopping. But I felt that I had to test the blade so I used it to chop a green tree stump. It passed my test without any breakage to the blade. I guess I got lucky.

Is my knife weaker than older knives? I have no idea. All I know is that my knife looks beautiful to me, and for a model that's considered a lightweight, my sirupati looks and performs well enough for me. Besides, every knife purchase is a gamble in my experience, and I don't regret buying a HI khukuri.
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Welcome to the crazy world of fine Khukuri, Browning!
Thank you for the new persons perspective and for taking your chances with H.I..
The Sirupate is designed as a weapon moreso than a tool. That being said the longer versions have been used well machete style and are warranted for clearing light brush and such, as long as you arent hitting rocks and things with it. It is built with all the toughness and quality as any other model we sell. No real luck involved there, just hard work and hundreds of years of evolution. The only real luck here is finding that one that speaks to you and fits you like it was made just for you.
 
Although I have yet to purchase my first Khukuri from HI, I still will definitely purchase one when I see what I'm looking for, despite these issues that some people have complained about. I have been very pleased with the HI forums and I realize that when you make handmade knives, you are bound to get the occassional knife with defects. However, I believe that misuse of the Khukuri is the main cause of problems with them. I think that misuse is caused by people either trying to test the limits of the knife, thinking that the knife is indestructible and will be able to come out unblemished even after use it is unintended for, or just not understanding the proper techniques to use the knife. I don't know if UCF is the true problem, but I do believe that misuse is the cause of chipping, etc.

When I first looked into buying a Khukuri a couple years ago, I did extensive online research to find the best company to buy one from. And I decided that if I bought one, it would be from HI. This was because of its fantastic reputation, support for the Nepalese Kamis, and the great customer service I read about on their website and on bladeforums. I still feel confident that HI remains the leading producer of Khukuris. Since I will be purchasing a DOTD knife, I am extremely pleased with the honesty from HI. Unlike other khukuri makers, they are honest about their products, which makes me confident about buying a khukuri from them, especially when I am purchasing a blemished knife. I plan to purchase multiple khukuris from HI and a farm knife (if I am fast enough to get one on the DOTD) because I am certain that the knives will be top quality. I'm a newbie to HI and do not own a khukuri at this point, but I thought that I should contribute to this thread. I would like HI to continue to be known as the best company to purchase a khukuri from and stay in business for a long time. I won't be able to collect them if you don't! :)
 
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