Induction Forge?

D

Don Nguyen

Joined
Oct 4, 2011
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Anyone ever look into these? I haven't heard much on these forums about them, but they look pretty nifty. Can't imagine them being very affordable.

[video=youtube;My9NSvOKdYA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My9NSvOKdYA[/video]
 
I bet the cost of operation is too great to make it feasible for knife making, and then there is that problem with stainless being non magnetic. and then you need different sized coils for different sized materials.
 
At one of the hammerins on the other knife forum I belong, we had one of these up and running. Surprisingly running costs are significantly cheaper (because almost all the energy used goes into heating the blade). But the set up costs are very high. Great for forging, takes just a few seconds to get a steel bar up to forging temperature. I guess you'd need some kind of computerised control to heat treat with it. It doesn't really matter that stainless is non-magnetic, you can still induce a current through it.
 
ron_m80 said:
I bet the cost of operation is too great to make it feasible for knife making, and then there is that problem with stainless being non magnetic. and then you need different sized coils for different sized materials.
Click to expand...

It doesn't actually consume power unless you have metal inside the loops.
No smoke for the neighbours like coal has.

You can see more info on I Forge Iron.
Someone there was making and selling, although he may have stopped or died? not sure who it was.


They aren't cheap and they are very localized, nice for some forging to upset the middle or end of a bar but not the whole bar (think integral)
I think heat treating wouldn't work as well.


If that one is 50,000 watts, using 220 volts, that's in the 200 amp range input..the whole service of my house.
 
Wonder if you could make one from parts of an induction cook stop stove?
 
They are great for some industries, but not really for knifemaking. Kayne and Son's used to sell them. IIRC, a full setup is about $8K. For that you can get a big power hammer or press.

Very different in power and makeup from an induction heater like a stovetop.
 
Good post Sam :) You're thinking of Grant Sarver. Many folks here are familiar with him, even if they don't realize it... he was the creator/owner of OCP Tool Co. (Off Center Production) --- I have many pairs of tongs and a couple blowers I bought in person from Grant. I didn't get to know him well, but you didn't have to be around him long to see he was brilliant about mechanical things--- especially hot working metal.

I know Tom Ferry was a good friend of Grant's. My first time seeing an induction forge in action was one that Tom bought from Grant. I can't think of a better word to describe it than, AMAZING. :eek: :cool: :thumbup:

Tom found a section of 5/8" or 3/4" square mild, stuck it in through a coil, and then grasped it on either side of the coil BARE HANDED.... hit the pedal and the bar was almost white hot in seconds. So fast that Tom twisted the bar in two at that point!!! Bare frigg'n handed!!! The coil heated that localized area that fast.... crazy I tell 'ya!!!

I think Dave Lisch has one too. I've seen them at a few other blacksmith shops since then. All of the ones I have seen, in person, were from Grant.

IF I had the opportunity to have one in my shop, I think it would be awesome. The speed and precision control of the heat would be unbeatable for things like upset forging integral bolsters, or the brut de forge finger flares, or just forging blades in general.

I THINK, but am not stating as fact..... I think Dave has done a bunch of heat treating by making specialized coils. Hopefully he'll see this and set this straight. :)

Definitely one of those tools with extreme cool factor. :cool: :thumbup: :)

Here's a thread on Don Fogg's forum about an induction forge.

http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=14373
 
NickWheeler said:
Definitely one of those tools with extreme cool factor. :cool: :thumbup: :)
Click to expand...

I think you mean extreme hot factor :D

I've seen some different coil setups that allow for heating along the edge, etc too. Pretty awesome piece of equipment I think. That story with the bare handed twisting is wild!
 
A close friend of Grant's, Larry, aka MonsterMetal over at IFI is filling the void left, by Grant's departure, at-least in regards to induction forges. He's selling the same units, with the modifications Grant made, both the single phase and the three phase units. A local buddy of mine has the single phase unit, but I haven't made the time to go over and check it out. He's more into ornamental iron work than tools, but he's made some knives with me and other things, and say's that it's absolutely awesome.

I believe his is foot pedal operated, so you stick the stock in, press the pedal, and bam, hot. By manipulating coil geometry, you can apparently achieve all sorts of effects for localized heating, and odd shapes. The potential with round stock and for upsetting applications are especially interesting.

Planning on getting one myself pretty dang soon. Afaik, I think the set up price is only around $4-5k, but I'm told it's very nice to be able to walk into the forge, turn a switch, heat some metal in seconds, forge, and if the phone rings, walk away without fear of burnin the place down. Not to mention the versatility.

Induction forges are used in industry heavily, and they range in capacity to be able to heat tiny stuff, to giant stuff, with the commensurate power requirements.
 
BTW, here's a link, by the late, great, Grant Sarver, making OCP blade type tongs, at around the 2 min mark, he's using one of the induction forges, before going to the friction screw press. RIP Grant: [video=youtube;0haNmEp0ZgA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haNmEp0ZgA&list=UUHM4D8_ih1OdIK9iSZQl9UQ&index=5[/video]
 
Good point Javan.... think of forging in the summer. Even here in Washington I had a few 130F days in the shop with the forge going.

I do think a guy doing ornamental work could justify the cost a lot easier than a knifemaker, but there are definitely some major advantages with one of these.

That's cool about Larry selling them, I didn't know that. Larry is only about 2 hours from here.

^^^12 seconds run time to have the blank at an orange forging heat!!! :eek: :cool:
 
Larry the hammer man, :D Dudes got more hammers than most of us here put together.. Those forges are the stuff for ornamental work and production work..Areas to be punched, upset and twisted that require precision heating..
 
I saw one of these in person this summer at Quadstate. The heating and speed is very impressive as Nick says. It's really amazing the first time you see one.

They guy selling them at QS makes the "coils", and they don't have to be coils either. He had one shaped like a Taco that would work real good for knife blades.

I asked how much the setup would cost with the induction machine and glycol cooler w/pump and he said about $3500.


If I remember right, he did a demo where he used a steel ball in a round coil. The magnet action of the coil held the ball in place suspended. Once the ball started heating up, about 2 sec later, it turned non-magnetic and dropped out of the field and into a bucket of water. Really awesome machine!
 
There was a long thread on Fogg's forum about these. Craig from Hawaii bought one and posted a bunch of pics heating large W2 bars. I came real close to getting one for summer forging. Cost wasn't too crazy and power usage isn't that bad. I still might get one... It'd be handy!
 
I have seen some vids of them. They look like they would be incredibly useful for making guards and other fittings and for heating up small pieces, where the heating is as close to instantaneous as you will see in our biz. The video that I saw of a big round bar being heated up took a while and there was scale coming off of the bar. If you had a coil big enough, I think it would be great for integrals
 
Wow Thanks Javand and Nick Man it was good to hear Grants Voice what a great video Grant was a very good friend of Mine and I bought one from him when he first started selling them he even came over to my shop and hooked it up to my 3 phase panel yes I got one before he dropped the price $1000 he would tell me later that it cost extra to be the first kid on the block with the new cool tool .. so I do use mine for heat treating not all the time but on some things like 1080 plus for kitchen knives works great and because of the way it heats I think it dose something to the steel beyond just heating it cant say what but it works. O and what it really dose good is fire etch wrought iron I use it on all my wrought iron. when it comes to forging knives I still like my little propane forge better . I Miss grant I really do.
 
I never got the opportunity to meet Grant in person, but we spoke a number of times, and he went out of his way to help me with anything he could, often before I even asked him. He's also one of the few people I knew would give a 100% no BS answer to any question he could capably answer.

I think Grant knew more about efficient, machine optimized, one man, production forging than just about anybody. Watch the rest of the videos on his youtube account to gain some serious insight. Really wish I'd had an opportunity to get to know him better.
 
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