Inexpensive large survival-camp-shtf knife

Cobalt said:
Really? Well, there are plenty of REAL users that will disagree with you and why don't you pull up those inconsistent results. Well as someone who has used both BK and Junglas, there is no doubt which feels better to me and it is not the Becker.

But since we are talking threads lets go here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1174136-Broke-my-BK2

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...finding-someone-to-fix-a-broken-tip-on-a-BK16

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1141546-Ka-Bar-BK-16-Quality-Control-UPDATE
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Cherry picking positive posts is a bit too transparent a tactic for me and certainly not one I'd stoop to because I suddenly found myself dug in irretrievably on a subject so subjective to begin with. I referred to an entire body of work over years, penned by many people, and stand behind everything I wrote. Anyone interested can do their own research. It's why BF has a search function.

You've stated your experience, I've stated mine. At least you stayed in the realm of OPINION this time which is as it should be.
 
craytab said:
The old "you don't use your knives" argument. Seems to be a lot of that going on around here lately. And when someone throws out that troll argument it pretty much makes whatever else you have to say meaningless. So I wish you good luck sir.
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I"ve noticed you seem to deem 'meaningless' or 'laughable' many opinions posted here not analogous to or in agreement with your own. It's such absolutes that result in you being challenged a lot. Your 'READY....FIRE....AIM !" technique in such cases isn't deserving of much of my, or anyone's, time.

So in the interest of brevity here, I'll only refer you to relevant parts of the FIRST paragraph of my post #41 above.

Best of luck to you too.
 
EChoil said:
I"ve noticed you seem to deem 'meaningless' or 'laughable' many opinions posted here not analogous to or in agreement with your own. It's such absolutes that result in you being challenged a lot. Your 'READY....FIRE....AIM !" technique in such cases isn't deserving of much of my, or anyone's, time.

So in the interest of brevity here, I'll only refer you to relevant parts of the FIRST paragraph of my post #41 above.

Best of luck to you too.
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I stand by what I said. Once you went person by saying I don't use my knives there is nothing else to discuss. Your opions are completely invalidated in this discussion because of your inability maintain discourse without stooping to personal attacks, as exemplified in you most recent personal attack on me above.
 
craytab said:
I stand by what I said. Once you went person by saying I don't use my knives there is nothing else to discuss. Your opions are completely invalidated in this discussion because of your inability maintain discourse without stooping to personal attacks, as exemplified in you most recent personal attack on me above.
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What I've attempted here is to diffuse a silly situation you began on previous pages via an essentially passive-aggressive post obviously aimed at me in the first place. You now attempt to extend it.

My opinions are as valid as yours or anyone else's here. Once again you fire blindly and in disregard of what actually was written. I'll let the readers decide who here attempted to maintain civil discourse as well as shut down the sillyspeak.
 
How about we get back to the OP's question? I'm sure he didn't post so you guys can go back and forth.

I would like to see more discussion on the Junglas. I've owned mine for years and have been using it as a chopper at the deer lease and around the house. In camp it has batoned countless hundreds of oak logs for the camp fire. Still going strong. Before the Junglas I used a BK9 but found it lacking in a few other areas during use. Obviously the grivory grips are one of them. They don't work here in our hot temps when hands get sweaty. I also like the grind on the Junglas better and I believe the warranty on the ESEE is a bit stronger.

Let me state this as well. I'm not a fan boy of any brand and I'm not knocking Beckers. I like them, I just prefer to pay a little more and get a little more in the ESEE brand.

I USE my knives as tools so I'm speaking from my real world experience and based on that use, I also own the Candiru, ESEE 4, ESEE Izula II, and ESEE 6 in addition to the Junglas.
I also own other various stainless blades for working here in the hot humid South where rust is an issue.
 
I was really impressed by my nephews Esee 5 when he visited last weekend. So impressed I had to have one. During research and shopping around for the best price I ran across information on the Becker BK22 with similar features as the Esee. At Amazon the BK22 is exactly 1/2 the price of the Esee. ($85 vs $170). My BK22 was shipped yesterday.
 
lonestar1979 said:
Inexpensive large survival-camp-shtf knife: What are good choices, my budget is $150.
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You have a lot of choices. Personally, I lean toward Condors along with a smaller knife. Just pick the one that makes you feel good. If that doesn't work, you can go the Kabar Becker or ESEE route and do the same thing.

I am trying to remember how many "survival" knives I own? Big to me is anything over 5" or 5.5". Well, I certainly have the bases covered and you know what I use? If I were choosing a larger knife for the woods, I'd probably opt for one of my Condor chopper machetes. But the Kumunga (10" blade) is a pretty cool knife and inexpensive. Been playing with this one..... playing is the word actually as I have never been in a true survival situation beyond getting a little turned around in the woods for a few hours. But if I am looking for a general "large" knife for the woods, I default to the Becker BK-7 or certainly the BK-9. I'd rather have a larger blade for chopping and just carry a folder or a folder and a medium to small fixed blade in addition to the chopper.

Other options certainly include a hatchet and blade or saw and blade. It is mostly personal preference and how you are likely to be using it and perhaps carrying it. I am not likely to carry a really heavy long blade just because I think it's cool if I am hiking beyond a day hike or over-nighter unless there is a definite need. There usually isn't a real need quite frankly; it is just personal preference.

I admit that I have little true need for a large knife for survival and likely will never need such. If I did, I likely would be working out of my vehicle and have axe, hatchet, several blades, and a saw. I might even have a one man cross cut saw or a chain saw for the big stuff. But why would you need to cut really big stuff? The likely reason is you are setting up a permanent camp and over time, you would likely have "projects" that might make your life a bit more comfortable and flexible.
 
Tramontina machete.

If you want something thicker, look online for japanese nata knives. They don't bind as much as junglas tend to.
 
ocnLogan said:
Whoa, you apparently thought I was attacking you, or ESEE, or scrapyard, or something like that, which (if you missed it in my post :p) I explicitly said I was not trying to do. So if I have somehow offended you, I apologize, that wasn't my intent (I actually thought we were getting along just fine).

I agreed with you saying that any blades can make it out of the factory with a missed quality check on the HT (which is what I believe those "divots" to be indicating). So the rest of my post was trying to indicate that things "could" happen to any companies knife, and as long as the company stood behind it, and it wasn't a rampant problem (you've now posted what... 8 photos? out of how many thousands/hundreds of thousands?), I was fine with that.

The "divots" you said were (in my mind at least) indicative of a bad heat treat, so I posted photos of what I can only imagine were other blades that had missed HT. I purposely did NOT post photos of ESEE or other brands that had been broken by blatant abuse (like the ESEE 6's/Izulas that have the tips missing from prying, knives that have been shot at, the one Busse I've seen that broke in half at the choil, but was apparently because it was custom redone, and the guy overheated the blade while grinding, etc). So no, I was not trying to subvertly be disingenuous. I tried to find examples of clear HT failures to prove a point, which apparently I may have done a touch too well.

Just to note, the BK9's broken at the stamp, those are the Camillus ones I was referring to in my last post. That is the classic place for them to break at the roll stamp. I think you may have now found most of the photos that I've seen of that type of break. And if you find one with the laser engraving (recent production) that is broken, I'd genuinely be interested. I haven't seen one come up since they made that change, and I'd like to keep informed (I try not to parrot stuff).

You posted a custom warncliff knife (the one that looks like the BK2)... that's not a broken one... that's the shape of the blade. You also posted the only photos I've seen (before) of a broken BK2. Luckily, we have the background on that one too. It was thrown "hundreds of times" (which I'm sure most here would say was abuse for a non-throwing knife). And finally we have a straight HT failure for a patrol machete, and a broken tip on a BK16 (can happen, just like the ESEE 6/izula ones, or any blade with a fine tip and someone prying).

Also, all of those blades were replaced under warranty (I'm pretty active in the Becker subforum, and most of these have come through at one point or the other, and have been discussed), as of course was the Scrapyard or ESEE knives, and presumably the Cold Steel as well.

I never stated that I thought that the Becker was better/tougher than Scrapyard, or ESEE. I merely said that I find them to be quality blades, with a company that stands behind their product.

In fact, the only thing I think I said that was concretely about the two, was that I find the BK9 to be more "knifey" while the larger junglas is more "chopper-y". Depending on what you're looking for, either of those will be advantages/disadvantages. I will agree with you on the sheath, the BK9's sheath isn't great, and I will agree that most seem to prefer micarta to grivory, that doesn't bother me at all (the only "arguable" point is the ergos/shape, which is person/hand size dependent, so our differences do not bother me in the least there either. Its A-ok in my book :)).

I think its great that you're going to compare the SR101 to 3v, I was actually lurking in that thread last week, and am eagerly awaiting the results, as hard numbers for differences between steels can be hard to come by. I think its a great service that you're doing. And no, I don't think plain old 1095 cv would fair well against those competitors. I've seen the steel charts :p.

Anyway, end result, I was trying to agree with you, but apparently it didn't come across that way, my bad. And in closing, I will still stand by the fact that "I" believe that Beckers are a great performers that have great ergonomics and value. And that Kabar will treat you well if something does happen (six sigma can miss things sadly :/). This does in no way somehow reduce what I think of the other brands that also do that.
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Addressing the paragraph starting with, the "divots". It might be a heat treat problem but I've seen knives break more often from poor to horrible technique or none at all. People will place a blade on the end of a log and whack away as hard as they can. You're just asking for a wave to be put in your edge and most likely a divot to be broke out. They get it in 1/4 of the way and come down harder on the second strike on an angle instead of staight down and you're going to break out a chunk of the edge. It don't matter who's name is stamped on the blade or what sooper steel it's made from. There is also just plain ineptness involved too. One of them stumps looks like fresh honey locust with two distinct ring patterns, the idiot decided to split across two distinct grain patterns and most likely went all out on the starter hits. Anything would have broken. That's a knife owner failure from watching too many YouTube videos then grabbing a log with no clue on how to read the grain of the wood. They would have broken anything. All of the divot pics look like user error from thinking they can just hammer away through any log they feel like. Don't work like that, not logged out offline not watching a YouTube videos at least. Then they post pictures online like they are some online expert lmao. Ok, blame the blade, at least I know better.

In honor of the OP, they got plenty of brands in their price range to cover what they want. Buy one and learn how to split wood with a knife properly and they will have no problems unless there is an honest materials defect.
 
I dislike this brand, except in this instance - Cold Steel. In my experience, they do what you're asking for in spades.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned. OP, Schrade has a lot of models in differint lengths that is right up your alley. Keep in mind two things. These are made in China, but probably match up to a lot of blades made in USA. Also, I guess sometimes the edges are off, wouldn't cost much to have a professional sharpener fix that and you could still be under 50 bucks.
Another blade, though it may not be long enough, is the Gerber Strongarm. The street price is in the 40 to 50 dollar range. Over on youtube it got the crap beat out of it in the Gauntlet and very well survived impressively. It's made in the USA, I consider that a plus. I'm actually thinking of getting one for myself even though I have no real use for it.
 
Hale Storm said:
How about we get back to the OP's question? I'm sure he didn't post so you guys can go back and forth.

I would like to see more discussion on the Junglas. I've owned mine for years and have been using it as a chopper at the deer lease and around the house. In camp it has batoned countless hundreds of oak logs for the camp fire. Still going strong. Before the Junglas I used a BK9 but found it lacking in a few other areas during use. Obviously the grivory grips are one of them. They don't work here in our hot temps when hands get sweaty. I also like the grind on the Junglas better and I believe the warranty on the ESEE is a bit stronger.

Let me state this as well. I'm not a fan boy of any brand and I'm not knocking Beckers. I like them, I just prefer to pay a little more and get a little more in the ESEE brand.

I USE my knives as tools so I'm speaking from my real world experience and based on that use, I also own the Candiru, ESEE 4, ESEE Izula II, and ESEE 6 in addition to the Junglas.
I also own other various stainless blades for working here in the hot humid South where rust is an issue.
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So, I feel that part of this was likely somewhat directed at me (not a problem, I have been more vocal about Beckers in this thread :p), and just know I don't feel like you're knocking them (or me) at all :thumbup:.

I am curious about a few things though. On the Becker subforum the grivory vs Micarta discussion comes up from time to time, with roughly a 50/50 split on what people prefer, which sometimes seems to lean towards people that wear gloves preferrring the micarta, while perhaps more "ungloved" users (like myself) prefer the grivory scales. Do you wear gloves when you use your knives? Just wondering.

Also, when I got my BK9, I found the handles girth a bit too small even though I liked the texture (gives good grip for me, and no blisters after prolonged use in my hand). I added liners underneath the scales, and the grip improved considerably. Another option to keep in mind (beyond the factory Micarta option) for the OP. And to be clear, I don't own any ESEE products. I came close to buying a 4, but photos and reviews showed the handle scales were a bit smaller than I thought I'd like. Do you feel that the Junglas has any handle scale/shape "issues"/weaknesses like that? I've honestly not heard much discussion about the handle ergos on the Junglas, so its an honest question.

And I have said this in the past, but with ESEE and Becker, I feel that the steel is more or less the same quality, but you get the "extras" like Micarta handles, a better sheath, and the more robust warranty built into the price of an ESEE, at roughly the cost of doing the same thing to a Becker (warranty excluded). So if you plan on wanting Micarta and kydex, its more about which shape/size/style you want than anything else (imo).

22-rimfire said:
You have a lot of choices. Personally, I lean toward Condors along with a smaller knife. Just pick the one that makes you feel good. If that doesn't work, you can go the Kabar Becker or ESEE route and do the same thing.

I am trying to remember how many "survival" knives I own? Big to me is anything over 5" or 5.5". Well, I certainly have the bases covered and you know what I use? If I were choosing a larger knife for the woods, I'd probably opt for one of my Condor chopper machetes. But the Kumunga (10" blade) is a pretty cool knife and inexpensive. Been playing with this one..... playing is the word actually as I have never been in a true survival situation beyond getting a little turned around in the woods for a few hours. But if I am looking for a general "large" knife for the woods, I default to the Becker BK-7 or certainly the BK-9. I'd rather have a larger blade for chopping and just carry a folder or a folder and a medium to small fixed blade in addition to the chopper.

Other options certainly include a hatchet and blade or saw and blade. It is mostly personal preference and how you are likely to be using it and perhaps carrying it. I am not likely to carry a really heavy long blade just because I think it's cool if I am hiking beyond a day hike or over-nighter unless there is a definite need. There usually isn't a real need quite frankly; it is just personal preference.

I admit that I have little true need for a large knife for survival and likely will never need such. If I did, I likely would be working out of my vehicle and have axe, hatchet, several blades, and a saw. I might even have a one man cross cut saw or a chain saw for the big stuff. But why would you need to cut really big stuff? The likely reason is you are setting up a permanent camp and over time, you would likely have "projects" that might make your life a bit more comfortable and flexible.
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+ 1 for the saw. A folding saw is incredibly handy, and doesn't take much weight or space. Its so much faster to cut something > 5-6in across than it is to chop it with most knives, below that I'd say it starts to lean towards the knife. And to top it off, they're usually quite cheap (got my corona for... $17?). I honestly take my larger knives pretty much just to baton the wood I cut with my folding saw, but it IS nice to have the option to use just one tool to do everything, thats on you all the time.

And yeah, still waiting on the OP to give more direction on the size. Personally I'd classify I'd say ~6in and larger as "large", but he might not have the same opinion.

Since a lot of time has been spent on the 5-10in blades so far, another thing for the OP to consider is more of a traditional chopper, like a machete, golok, parang, bolo, etc.The Condor Golok is 14in of 1/4in blade stock, the Kabar/Johnson Adventure Blades "Parangatang" which actually has similar specs (14in, 1/4in blade stock, etc). Both of those should be more than strong enough to do whatever needs doing, and should out chop the other blades mentioned so far just due to the extra blade length. Both of those can be had for roughly half (or less) of your budget, still allowing a nice moderate sized knife like an ESEE 3/4, Becker BK15/16, Condor bushlore, etc.

Good luck with the choice, sometimes its hard with so many options. The upside is that there really haven't been any bad blades mentioned yet, so its hard to choose "wrong" :).
 
Hale Storm said:
How about we get back to the OP's question? I'm sure he didn't post so you guys can go back and forth.

I would like to see more discussion on the Junglas. I've owned mine for years and have been using it as a chopper at the deer lease and around the house. In camp it has batoned countless hundreds of oak logs for the camp fire. Still going strong. Before the Junglas I used a BK9 but found it lacking in a few other areas during use. Obviously the grivory grips are one of them. They don't work here in our hot temps when hands get sweaty. I also like the grind on the Junglas better and I believe the warranty on the ESEE is a bit stronger.

Let me state this as well. I'm not a fan boy of any brand and I'm not knocking Beckers. I like them, I just prefer to pay a little more and get a little more in the ESEE brand.

I USE my knives as tools so I'm speaking from my real world experience and based on that use, I also own the Candiru, ESEE 4, ESEE Izula II, and ESEE 6 in addition to the Junglas.
I also own other various stainless blades for working here in the hot humid South where rust is an issue.
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Despite the accusations and personal attacks above, I, like you, have used the Junglas for several years as a big camp knife. It batons fantastic and is an adequate chopper. The handle on it is different from all the other Esee knives in that the are more rounded. I find them very comfortable. The sheath is also a pleasure to use. Though I dont put it on my belt it straps very well to a pack and is more than secure with the three retention methods.

If I could only choose one Esee it would be the Junglas.
 
By the way OCNLOGAN, I did not take anything personal when I responded. I did not post Beckers that had broke in half, because as well all know, any knife will break. And breaking a knife in half unless it is 1/2 inch thick isn't that hard to do. So anyway, my point was the faulty heat treat. I owned a Becker Brute, a BK9, and two campanions. All were very good knives. My biggest complaint at the time was the handles. Way to slippery. I know these days you can get micarta and that is great. Makes me wish I had kept mine. I had used all of them for years and they were decent knives. I did experience edge chipping but no divots like those pics. I picked up my first Junglas several years ago as a cheap truck knife and to remove scrub brush. I did not treat it particularly well. Took it up to a friends place at 11,500 ft and we proceeded to eliminate a ton of beetle kill trees with it. These trees were dead and very hard. I gave my buddy the junglas and I had a gransfors wildlife hatchet. We worked 3-4 hours getting a pile of kindling. The junglas was still shaving sharp, no chips, and only one dent near the tip where my buddy hit a rock in the ground cutting a branch in half. I have lots of experiences with both brands. I have done similar with my brute and the edge did chip out much more than ESEE. Now maybe things are different now, but unless you are telling me that you have run both knives, you have no frame of reference.

But, as for taking anything personal, no worries, that is not the case. I would not even comment about it if I had never owned a Becker, but I have own several. Honestly, the Campanion is one of my favorite designs ever. And with micarta, I might be willing to give it a shot again.
 
Cobalt said:
By the way OCNLOGAN, I did not take anything personal when I responded. I did not post Beckers that had broke in half, because as well all know, any knife will break. And breaking a knife in half unless it is 1/2 inch thick isn't that hard to do. So anyway, my point was the faulty heat treat. I owned a Becker Brute, a BK9, and two campanions. All were very good knives. My biggest complaint at the time was the handles. Way to slippery. I know these days you can get micarta and that is great. Makes me wish I had kept mine. I had used all of them for years and they were decent knives. I did experience edge chipping but no divots like those pics. I picked up my first Junglas several years ago as a cheap truck knife and to remove scrub brush. I did not treat it particularly well. Took it up to a friends place at 11,500 ft and we proceeded to eliminate a ton of beetle kill trees with it. These trees were dead and very hard. I gave my buddy the junglas and I had a gransfors wildlife hatchet. We worked 3-4 hours getting a pile of kindling. The junglas was still shaving sharp, no chips, and only one dent near the tip where my buddy hit a rock in the ground cutting a branch in half. I have lots of experiences with both brands. I have done similar with my brute and the edge did chip out much more than ESEE. Now maybe things are different now, but unless you are telling me that you have run both knives, you have no frame of reference.

But, as for taking anything personal, no worries, that is not the case. I would not even comment about it if I had never owned a Becker, but I have own several. Honestly, the Campanion is one of my favorite designs ever. And with micarta, I might be willing to give it a shot again.
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Glad we're mostly on the same page, as its hard to tell via text some times :).

From the sound of it, by the timing (you said a number of years back before the Micarta was available), it was most likely a camillus BK9, which was known to run a tad on the harder side (and sometimes breaking like the ones you posted earlier), which may explain the edges chipping. That is just speculation though, so I could be way off.

And its interesting, the handle scales texture seems to be very polarizing. Some say its too slippery, some say its just right. The nice thing is the option to "fix" it for either preference. And just curious, I asked Hale Storm the same thing above, but do you wear gloves when you use your knives? That seems to change the preference a fair amount of time for some reason. But yeah, if you have the chance sometime, you may give them another try (since by all accounts you seemed to like it other than the handles). If I get the chance to have a go with a Junglas, I'll make sure I take it :).

And no, I don't own a Junglas. The BK9 I have is a roll stamped Kabar manufactured one that has also served me quite well in what sounds like similar usage scenarios.

And after all of this, and no update yet from the OP on a size preference. I still stand by the BK12/ Ritter MK2 suggestion as a blind "one tool" suggestion. Its got the Becker handle ergos, but is Rowen manufactured (just like the ESEE blades). I'd consider the ESEE 6 a close second, but I like the shape of the becker handles better, and am not a huge fan of big choils. Otherwise, the ESEE is quite similar in most respects, so its a personal preference tossup between them. Anything much larger than those two and its getting pretty big, and likely wouldn't be my choice as a "one knife" solution, unless I knew I was primarily going to be chopping or something like that.

Cheers :).
 
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