Infi vs cpm 3v ?

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Aug 12, 2014
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So this question was asked in the busse manufacturer forum. i hear people say 3v rusts and chips more then infi. i would just like to hear from people who are on here because i want the 3v in question to be guy's from s!k ?
 
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I will say that the CPM 3V with PHT that S!K uses is prebably some of the best 3V out there, but I've heard really good things about INFI too.

I'll also say that I've seen a post where a GSO-10 had some pretty nasty corrosion on it (chiral's post) and there's a Busse TGLB made from INFI up for sale right now that clearly has some kind of corrosion on it too.
So neither is foolproof.

Here's what the graph shows...

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=INFI%2C%203V&ni=681,&hrn=1&gm=0
 
I got a 3v knife I made and had Peter do the HT. I polished the blade with 400...so not that polished and I have never put oil on it and it was out in the woods for a good week in sleet and snow this weekend. A sheath maker was out there and was very impressed by not having any surface rust or signs of discoloration.
I would say if the GSO has any rust issue is would be from the rougher tumbled finish.
As a side note I heard INFI is a name busse trademarked and INFI is actually a cutter steel which can be purchased. If you chip properly HTed 3V you are either chopping rocks or have a high RC treated knife I don't know I only seen my 3v knife treated past the recommended 60RC (one of mine is 62-63) the one at 61RC is crazy indestructible.
 
Just my anecdotal opinon after owning both steels in question.

Edge retention on 3V does seem to last a little longer than INFI before having to touch up. That graph shows the amount of Vanadium in there that 3V has, in combo with other elements not found in INFI for grain structure.

INFI was great, I feel it discolored more gradually /gracefully than 3V, which once it spots, starts spotting like crazy, but with some 0000 steel wool comes right off either. Let it go too long with 3V and I could see the stains requiring longer to remove, but I don't really see it penetrating the steel and structurally weakeneing it. Same goes for INFI, doesn't seem likely either will actually rust from anything we can throw at it, other than gross negligence. Not sure if Chiral has time to break out the microscope on the GSO 10, but I'm sure his input here will be valued. Both Jerry and Peter seem to have this stuff down to a very cool science. My only curiosity is to see if that same structural hardiness translates over to blades of thinner stock. I did infact have a thin NICK a few years back, Busse experts please help me out here, was one of their thinnest knives in INFI (I could be wrong about this). I really liked it, but ended up trading it up. There's probably a very complicated way to see which will surafce oxidize first and fastest, but both have such similarly robust impact resistance, I would be hard pressed to be able to tell the difference between the two in us other than blade geos. They both sharpen up really quick in the field. I can see the draw to these modern steels functionality and just plain fun, but I wouldn't say one is better than the other.
 
I would say, that 3v is a much better steel, for my uses. I use my knives when hunting, for skinning and quartering big game. Infi, just does not hold an edge very well. My gso 4.1 in 3v is much better than any infi ever could be. Even covered in blood for hours, I have yet to see much rust if at all. The only thing infi has on 3v is raw toughness, nothing else. I kinda got off that busse band wagon, not worth the money for what you get, for that price, your much better off with swamp rat if staying in the busse family. And 3v beats that in edge retention. The only thing I have seen beat 3v so far is cts-pd1, its tough as hell, and holds an awesome edge.
 
CTS stands for Carpenter steels. I have only seen Strider Folders made out of it.

I read somewhere that INFI steel is A8 modified tool steel, to incorporate more nitrogen and then heat treated a certain way for BUSSE. It is only made by Latrobe Steel.
 
Infi is a bit tougher and more stain resistant, 3v has a little better edge retention. Both are great steels and plenty tough.
 
STORY OF INFI

This is from August 6, 1998: an email Jerry wrote, talking about his new steel.......

Interesting facts about INFI:

Although the hardened INFI knives are 60 - 62 Rc we have yet been able to chip an edge. The edge can be dented or disalligned but its high level of malleability at such high hardness has never been duplicated by any other steel that we are aware of or have tested. We have bent INFI 35 degrees in a vise and it springs back to true. Why? What is the benefit to the customer? Not only does this test demonstrate the enormous toughness and lateral strength of an INFI blade but because our hardness is homogenous and not differential it demonstrates the amount of lateral strength and "spring" that the edge has as well. Many knives, which are differentially tempered, are done so because the steel being used does not possess great levels of inherent lateral strength at high hardness. In other words, if the entire knife were left at the same hardness as the edge the knife would be brittle in comparison to the same knife when differentially tempered. Carrying this thought even further, it tells us that if the knife is brittle or possesses low levels of lateral strength at high hardness then the edge must possess these same characteristics even when differentially treated because the edge is at the higher and more brittle hardness. The other question that arises is which hardness will the point be at on a differentially treated blade? There are only two choices; it is either the high brittle hardness, like the edge, or the softer spring temper, like the spine. Neither one offers optimal performance for the tip of the knife, which is often the most, used portion of the blade. INFI does not suffer from this malady because it is the only knife steel ever tested that has achieved such high levels of lateral strength with a homogenous hardness of 60 Ð 62 Rc. No other steel has even neared this performance level.

INFI's high level of chip resistance makes this the easiest steel to resharpen by hand that I have ever encountered. I personally fall into the category of the "hand sharpening challenged". I've heard tales of those who can sharpen ball peen hammers to a razor's edge on an Arkansas stone in less than 5 seconds flat. My experiences have always been to the contrary. The spine of the knife is usually sharper than the edge when I'm finished applying my magic stone sharpening technique. One of the great beauties of INFI is that simply stropping away from the edge (the way a barber strops a straight edged razor) on a ceramic stick is basically all that is required for INFI. Since you're not chipping steel off the edge there is no need to grind any steel away. This feature of INFI will, likewise, allow you to keep the same overall profile of the knife for a much greater period of time. Cool, huh?

Stainless? Not supposed to be. However, INFI has demonstrated very high levels of stain resistance in many different climates. Uncoated blades have been tested for more than a year in Alaska and have made their way into the wilds of British Columbia, the High Sierras and the tropical rain forest. No rust in Alaska or British Columbia! No rust in the High Sierras, even when exposed to great quantities of blood and left in the wet grass overnight. The tropical rain forest, which has been known to rust plastic (just kidding), did offer the toughest of the environmental exposures and a light speckling of oxidation did occur but was easily removed in the field with a hand rubbing of sand and water. No pitting was reported. Now I'm sure that salt-water exposure would offer some different results. The point is that although INFI is not a stainless it is certainly not a rust aggressive steel as many of the high carbon steels have proven to be. Couple this with our coating and you've got yourself a fairly maintenance free knife.

How does it compare to other steels? Simple question, complex answer. INFI represents what I have always dreamed of in a knife steel. Tougher, by an enormous margin, than any other steel I've ever tested. Unparalleled edge holding under high impact and in cutting tests. Shock resistance that begs you to "bring it on". An ease of resharpening that you have to see to believe. Higher levels of lateral strength at high hardness than have ever been achieved by any other steel. We have published our test results and our testing methodology. We have video taped all of these tests and play the video at the knife shows we attend. We encourage all knifemakers to duplicate our tests. We also encourage other knifemakers to supply us with their testing criteria and videotape of their test results so that we might perform the same tests on our INFI blades. We love testing knives! We destroy more knives in a year than most custom knifemakers manufacture in the same period of time. The only competitor's performance results that we will publish will be those that have been supplied to the public or to us privately by other makers. We will only publish the name of our competition if they give us permission to do so. If you want to know how another maker's knife will compare to a Busse Combat knife ask the other maker to duplicate our tests. We will gladly duplicate their tests.

Will you notice the difference between our knives and our competitions? I don't know. Most consumers will never take a knife to its limit. Many of the high performance knives on the market surpass the abilities of human abuse and cannot be taken past those limits without the assistance of leverage devices and insane behavior. There are some out there, however who have some real issues, who's primal urges cause them to run screaming through the forests. Who seek therapy in the wilderness and only find some resolve after cleaving down a patch of trees (dead ones of course) large enough to constitute a small rain forest. For those of you who can relate to this sort of behavior and think it beats the heck out of golfing, then we make the knife you've been looking for. If you're the type of person who wants more horsepower than you'll ever be able to use, then here we are waiting for you with a knife and a guarantee,

Are we the only knife you should ever buy? I hope not. There are an enormous number of fine knives and knifemakers in the market place. We salute those companies who strive for performance and not cosmetics. Some achieve both. The overall performance of knives has greatly increased over the past 15 years. Some companies and makers achieve better performance through better design, some through better construction, and some through the use of better materials. Some have achieved one or two and, rarely, some have achieved all three. I believe that Busse Combat has achieved all three and we are not the only ones. On the other hand there are many designs that confuse me, many choices of materials used that seem like a waste, and construction choices from handle construction to blade grind that seem to have been based solely on cost of manufacture. However, if there is one thing I've learned, it is that the more I learn the more I realize I don't know. Are there absolutes in design, construction, and material choice? You better believe I think so, but these are only based on my personal experiences and therefore are nothing more than opinion. I learned through too many years of graduate school and academic study that even though my opinions are supported heavily by facts they are still nothing more than opinions. I believe that knife manufacturers who strive for performance should keep an open mind.

Are we excited about INFI? Oh yeah! In fact it is difficult to contain ourselves. We have invested a lot of time and money in this project. We were prepared to invest more until we got it right. Luckily, more than ten years and countless bucks later we hit the jackpot! Lucky us, lucky you. With a steel like INFI it's easy to understand why we offer the toughest guarantee in the business. We guarantee against any and all major damage, including the handles, including accidental damage forever. We highly encourage gross abuse as it is covered by OUR warranty. The only thing we do not cover is intentional damage. For example, let's say you cut your Busse Combat knife in half with an acetylene torch. We probably wouldn't cover that . . . unless it was accidental, in which case we would send you new knife. I have rambled for too long here. Thanks for bearing with me and stay tuned to our website for more info in the future on INFI."

Your friend,
Jerry Busse"

I've got a fair bit of INFI and SR-101, and some 3V. INFI really shines in working edge retention and impact resistance while chopping. It's really superb for big ol' honkin' choppers. I think 3V is a superstar in wear resistance and I LOVE it for that. It will slice all month and ask for more! It also holds up really, really well to impact, but if you push it to far, it will chip. When 3V hits the chipping point, INFI will roll and you can straighten it with a steel pretty easily. Heck if you're hard pressed you can use a screw driver to push the edge back and keep chopping till you can fix it right. Bottom line is I think they're both fantastic steels and I love them both. I'm really liking the 3V in the small to medium size GSO's. Right now all I have is my GSO-5.1, but I'll have more thoughts on that when I get my GSO-3.5 and have a chance to play with her for a bit.

I am really looking forward to being able to get a GSO-10 or GSO-12 when they're available and seeing how it does compared my NMFBM.
 
I will just point out I have bent both my 3v blades, one 61RC and the other 62-63RC pounded into a tree over 45' one way over 45' both multiple times.
 
I have been hooked on INFI for a while and think it is great steel. It seems to excel when used on large knives with thick edges. It has been my experience that when taken too thin and worked hard, the edge will warp. When I say warp, I don't mean roll... I mean bend out of shape. Thankfully INFI is so malleable and forgiving, I have been able to flatten it back out to an acceptable level with a hammer on a smooth surface.

Lately I've moved away to 3v and a few others and found that I have been missing out on some good steel. I have not had 3v bend, roll or chip, and I have thumped pretty hard on some thin edges. It really is quite remarkable. I'm sure some day I will find its weakness but for now I am very confident with it.

As for edge retention; I would have to give it to 3v by a small margin. Heat treat, edge thickness and geometry all come into play so its hard to really say without doing exact testing. They both hold a very good edge for their toughness level.
 
So the hardness is 58-59 on the cpm 3v i am referring to.

HRC's in question from Survive! at multiple blade lengths doesn't rust or chip more than infi.

Other 3V I own from different manufacturers with higher HRC, still performs about the same.
 
Not much to add. I had a lot of infi and still have some, but I have been going more to 3V over the last few years when I want blades where impact priority is the main thing. 3V is a great choice because it is not a severe compromise on any count. Very good edge retention/durability, ok on corrosion resistance, obviously very tough. Infi is also very tough, and has decent corrosion resistance but is only available from Busse(-kin sometimes) and edge retention is not nearly as good as 3V. My standard for edge retention is my S90V spyderco folders (I know there are other high availability comparable options including M390, 204p, and 20V) and Infi does not come close. 3V is a good compromise. Haven't tried 4V yet.

I am fortunate to have (finally :)) a Survive 5.1 in 3V and love it. But I went with 20V in the 3.5 and the necker II and will go with 20V in the 4.1 when it is available again.

But for larger blades with good cutting performance, I have no reason to go back to Busse with so many good 3V choices these days.
 
I am waiting on my 5.1 to arrive. I had to have it sent out for a custom shealth. Also will be getting 20v
 
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